FA reform: Former chiefs say 'elderly white men' block change

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38274152

FA reform: Former chiefs say 'elderly white men' block change


The Football Association is outdated, held back by "elderly white men" and unable to counter the power of the Premier League, say five former executives of the governing body.

David Bernstein, David Davies, Greg Dyke, Alex Horne and David Triesman say the FA has failed to "self-reform".

The five have asked Parliament's Culture, Media and Sport committee to propose legislation to reform the FA.

Committee chairman Damian Collins MP has said "time has run out" for the FA.

"It may well move us to redressing the woeful lack of English players or managers and the embarrassing failures of our national team for the past 50 years," the five conclude in a letter to Mr Collins.

Among the points made by the five former FA executives are:

The Premier League's financial power has a knock-on effect "right through the football pyramid".
The FA is compelled to contribute tens of millions of pounds to the Premier League, rather than the grassroots of the game.
The majority of those in senior positions are under-qualified to deal with the complexities of the FA structures.
The FA Board is neither an independent board nor an independent regulator.

Without a hint of irony.

pastafarian said:

David Bernstein, David Davies, Greg Dyke, Alex Horne and David Triesman say the FA has failed to "self-reform".

The five have asked Parliament's Culture, Media and Sport committee to propose legislation to reform the FA.

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spring hall convert said:

Without a hint of irony.

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Are you suggesting that those 5 are part of the problem, and not really trying to find a solution? Am I being foolish thinking this is a good thing?

Triggaaar said:

Are you suggesting that those 5 are part of the problem, and not really trying to find a solution? Am I being foolish thinking this is a good thing?

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I'm suggesting that 5 white men all over the age of 45, talking about the failures of 'elderly white men,' is a touch ironic.

They're likely right by the way but it's hardly an advert for FA Diversity.

#notallelderlywhitemen

Triggaaar said:

Are you suggesting that those 5 are part of the problem, and not really trying to find a solution? Am I being foolish thinking this is a good thing?

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not suggesting anything trigg was just sharing an interesting bbc news piece exactly as they are reporting it

Funny how they are calling for change after they have received their pay cheques for sitting on the board...

spring hall convert said:

I'm suggesting that 5 white men all over the age of 45, talking about the failures of 'elderly white men,' is a touch ironic.

They're likely right by the way but it's hardly an advert for FA Diversity.

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I don't see the irony. I think either the men they're talking about are a fair bit older still, or more likely, they're deliberately saying it well aware that they are also 5 old white men (not their choice), who couldn't have achieved their position in an inward looking FA if they weren't.

pastafarian said:

not suggesting anything trigg was just sharing an interesting bbc news piece exactly as they are reporting it

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I was talking to spring. I like the article, best thing I've heard about the FA in decades. I was thinking only yesterday of starting a poss 'which is worse, the FA or FIFA?' with options for they're 'both good' or 'both rotten'.

We all love football, and English football has been ruined by this bunch of inept *****. We should do something about it.

KingstonSeagull said:

Funny how they are calling for change after they have received their pay cheques for sitting on the board...

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Didn't Dyke step down because he wanted change? Isn't that fairly principled? Apologies if I've got this all wrong, I'm no expert on the shitty FA.

Triggaaar said:

Didn't Dyke step down because he wanted change? Isn't that fairly principled? Apologies if I've got this all wrong, I'm no expert on the shitty FA.

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I don't know I heard he was in a bit of a DITCH

[tweet]808252525380071424[/tweet]

Racist article

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

heathgate said:

Racist article

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You can throw sexism into the mix, as well.

The FA's bright idea to get more girls/women into playing football? Pink whistles and nice smelling bibs.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-38275894

Triggaaar said:

I was talking to spring. I like the article, best thing I've heard about the FA in decades. I was thinking only yesterday of starting a poss 'which is worse, the FA or FIFA?' with options for they're 'both good' or 'both rotten'.

We all love football, and English football has been ruined by this bunch of inept *****. We should do something about it.

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Its a safe bet to say nearly all football fans like us who attend matches dont really have much love for the FA or FIFA for that matter
They have made great strides in promoting kick out racism etc but have huge failings in far too many areas

Awful article. Imagine if just one of those terms were changed to black, or female. There'd be a lynching.

pastafarian said:

Its a safe bet to say nearly all football fans like us who attend matches dont really have much love for the FA or FIFA for that matter
They have made great strides in promoting kick out racism etc but have huge failings in far too many areas

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Thanks for this. I don't tend to take much interest in the politics of football, apart from being disgusted at the antics of FIFA over the years. I suppose if someone asks me whether I have much respect for the FA, I would say no, but can't give a good reason for this. I can well imagine that there are those at the top, resistant to any change, as happens in many organisations, as those who are doing well, fear anything that might (as they perceive it) negatively affect their status and earnings. Genuine, if perhaps rather naïve question - What exactly would be the main criticisms/failings of the FA, apart from the rather vague -they resist change?

The FA is most certainly an 'old boys club'. It also filters down into the various county FAs. Our own Sussex County FA is full of very old windbags suppressing any thought of change from new blood wanting to hook up. The dinosaur that was Peter Bentley who ran Sussex football from top to bottom, did so literally unopposed. He was also one of those entrenched English FA old farts. It is pretty endemic from the FA down to the local county administrations and I don't see it changing any time soon.

Hastings gull said:

Thanks for this. I don't tend to take much interest in the politics of football, apart from being disgusted at the antics of FIFA over the years. I suppose if someone asks me whether I have much respect for the FA, I would say no, but can't give a good reason for this. I can well imagine that there are those at the top, resistant to any change, as happens in many organisations, as those who are doing well, fear anything that might (as they perceive it) negatively affect their status and earnings. Genuine, if perhaps rather naïve question - What exactly would be the main criticisms/failings of the FA, apart from the rather vague -they resist change?

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It’s a fair question. I'll give it a long winded bash.

Grassroots football has been far too slow to change in this country and still remains chronically underfunded. The football pyramid in just too top heavy.

In this country the vast majority of organised kids’ football is run, managed and coached by parents. Voulnteers basically. As admirable as this is for the parents willing to give up their time, I did for the best part of 10 years, it really isn’t good enough. We have a chronic lack of highly skilled coaches compared to other leading European nations. Many teams will just be coached by Level 1 parent coaches, a very basic qualification, and perhaps some help from a Level 2 coach.

The FA introduced an excellent parallel coaching path called the Youth Awards about nine years ago. They work in Modules from 1 -3. You can only take Module 3 however if you have a Level 2 on the General side as the Module 3 is beyond a Level 2. Fantastic scheme!, delivered really well by the County FA’s. I did Module 1 & 2 and can’t speak highly enough of them. Advanced courses do cost a fair bit in terms of money and especially time (difficult for volunteers in full time-work). I was lucky that our club had a policy of paying for coaches/managers to take courses and I went as far as time and my commitment level would allow.

However, the frustration for me came with waiting for change in the format of the Youth game. It was breaking my heart seeing 10 & 11 year olds running around on full size, long grass muddy pitches (yes, facilities have always been woeful for grassroots football). The smaller kids who were good techincal players at mini minor football were suddenly struggling against teams that would just hoof it up to a big centre forward to run onto and score from all distances against a child keeper with absolutely no chance of covering a full size goal. Honestly, it was soul destroying to watch.

I was fed up of asking at various coaching courses what the FA, County FA’s and Leagues were going to do about changing the format of youth football. I was told the FA left it up to the Counties, who in turn left it up to the Leagues. Long story short, no change, even after I personally petitioned all the other teams in our league to see if they wanted change.

Eventually change did come! http://www.clubwebsite.co.uk/news/2...youth-football-whats-in-store/comment-page-7/ Hurray!, but it was a long time coming and still possibly doesn’t go far enough.

When the change came, I heard Trevor Brooking interviewed about it on radio. The interviewer put it to him that there’s been a movement for this change within Youth Football for quite a while, so why have the FA taken so long. His response was that they didn’t want to “force the door down”, but rather “push at an open door”, and they’d been working hard to persuade adults in youth football that this change was necessary first. That just about sums up the FA for me and their reluctance to take bold decisions. I want a benevolent dictator of an FA to be honest with you, bringing in radical changes where they think they’re needed. And if those changes aren’t working, change it again!, until it does work. Not fence sitters having endless meetings in blazers before anything gets done.

Let’s look at one of the FA’s big campaigns in recent times . Respect. Very admirable, and this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A-pTcP9CjE shown at coaching courses up and down the country does a good job of conveying the message, for the kids game at least. But let’s look at what kids are watching on TV shall we?

Seasoned pros shouting and swearing at refs week in week out.



What are the punishments? Not a lot really, beyond the odd booking for dissent or a disciplinary committee meeting if things get too far out of hand. Compare it with Rugby. What a world of difference! Calling the officials Sir, only the team captain allowed to speak to the ref. I read that attitudes may sadly be changing http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-un...eat-as-instances-of-verbal-and-physical-abus/, but I bet the Rubgy authorities will clamp down on it hard to stop it escalating. Our FA seem too afraid to take really firm measures to sort out clear problems.

FIFA and our World Cup bids - If the FA really believed that FIFA was corrupt and that the bidding process was corrupt, why take part in it? I’d rather an FA that would come out and say, “ We don’t have any faith in the bidding process and will therefore not be entering a bid until such time as we believe things have changed”. Will they say this?...well yes actually, Dyke finally did say effectively that. Good on him! But too little too late again I’m afraid. Instead we end up looking like a case of sour grapes as we appeared willing to play the game and only complained when the decisions went against us. Stuck in the muds again, afraid to be radical right from the off.


Southgate being interviewed for the full time England manager job. Really?! What exactly is that about? It’s a poison chalice as it is, we will only accept an Englishman for the job. He’s been involved with the U21’s , did ok in the 5 or 6 game trial period, there’s no other candidates. I’m not Southgate’s biggest fan by any means, but for crying out loud give the poor bloke some confidence and backing and just appoint him. No, more blazers in committee meetings needed for that to go ahead.


The FA do some sterling work. I’m no expert and I’m sure they do even more that many of us just don't see. But to the average layman and woman, I suspect they come across as a dinosaur organisation, slow to change and appearing to be on a nice little gravy train for their blazer brigade. Of course, if England were ever to win a major tournament again, that perception could very well change, literally overnight

1066familyman said:

Compare it with Rugby. What a world of difference! Calling the officials Sir, only the team captain allowed to speak to the ref. I read that attitudes may sadly be changing http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-un...eat-as-instances-of-verbal-and-physical-abus/, but I bet the Rubgy authorities will clamp down on it hard to stop it escalating.

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Too right they will. From the report you quote. "The punishments in rugby, however, do still appear rather more severe. In Cornwall this season, a Redruth Albany player was banned for 18 weeks for “serious verbal abuse” of a match official." Can't see that happening in football any time.

I'm not involved in grassroots football but I do coach youth rugby and cricket at weekends. We drum respect for opponents and match officials into kids and make it clear that dissent is not tolerated - they're left in no doubt that bad behaviour will see them kicked out of the club (I know one local cricket club asked two junior players to leave following such abuse).

I've never seen any kid disrespect the ref/umpire, nor have I seen an adult do it when I watch senior matches. It's not that difficult to instill discipline into young players. I'm not sure why football clubs are so reluctant to do so

Thunder Bolt said:

You can throw sexism into the mix, as well.

The FA's bright idea to get more girls/women into playing football? Pink whistles and nice smelling bibs.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-38275894

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Couldn't really make it up.. The part about advertising in places women will see, for example coffee shops and toilet doors...

Gwylan said:

Too right they will. From the report you quote. "The punishments in rugby, however, do still appear rather more severe. In Cornwall this season, a Redruth Albany player was banned for 18 weeks for “serious verbal abuse” of a match official." Can't see that happening in football any time.

I'm not involved in grassroots football but I do coach youth rugby and cricket at weekends. We drum respect for opponents and match officials into kids and make it clear that dissent is not tolerated - they're left in no doubt that bad behaviour will see them kicked out of the club (I know one local cricket club asked two junior players to leave following such abuse).

I've never seen any kid disrespect the ref/umpire, nor have I seen an adult do it when I watch senior matches. It's not that difficult to instill discipline into young players. I'm not sure why football clubs are so reluctant to do so

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Exactly!, using the Rugby example I honestly believe the FA could change our game almost overnight. In that article it also mentions matches being abandoned because refs just walked off following abuse. Can you imagine THAT happening in football?

In all honesty, on balance, my experience of youth football was pretty good. Yes there were some idiot managers/coaches and parents from time to time on your travels, but that was always the exception rather than the rule.