Asbestos question

Neil · Oct 24, 2016

Can anyone tell me when Asbestos was stopped from being used in house construction.
Reason why I'm asking is that the Council said they were doing the fascias and soffits on my Leasehold maisonette flat that I bought from the Council and they wanted to charge me for an asbestos survey on my bill when it was programmed works as they do all the exterior works but I was billed for as its classed as a MAJOR WORKS. But the maisonette flat was built by the Council in 1988 as was the whole estate.
Can I despute the £400 fee as I am sure asbestos was stopped being used well before that date .
thanks

Goldstone1976 · Oct 24, 2016

Neil said:
Can anyone tell me when Asbestos was stopped from being used in house construction.
Reason why I'm asking is that the Council said they were doing the fascias and soffits on my Leasehold maisonette flat that I bought from the Council and they wanted to charge me for an asbestos survey on my bill when it was programmed works as they do all the exterior works but I was billed for as its classed as a MAJOR WORKS. But the maisonette flat was built by the Council in 1988 as was the whole estate.
Can I despute the £400 fee as I am sure asbestos was stopped being used well before that date .
thanks

There are three main types of asbestos that were used in construction in the the UK. Two were banned in '85, the last in '99.

I'm not an expert - I have a property which I had to have cleared of asbestos and did some research...

GT49er · Oct 24, 2016

Neil said:
Can anyone tell me when Asbestos was stopped from being used in house construction.
Reason why I'm asking is that the Council said they were doing the fascias and soffits on my Leasehold maisonette flat that I bought from the Council and they wanted to charge me for an asbestos survey on my bill when it was programmed works as they do all the exterior works but I was billed for as its classed as a MAJOR WORKS. But the maisonette flat was built by the Council in 1988 as was the whole estate.
Can I despute the £400 fee as I am sure asbestos was stopped being used well before that date .
thanks

Not completely banned until 1999.

brightonbaz · Oct 24, 2016

Asbestos (in all its forms) was finally banned in the UK in 1999. Crocidolite (blue) and Amosite (brown) were banned in the mid eighties. It is commonly found in many commercial and domestic properties as well as plant and equipment such as heating systems. Therefore any structure etc. built or refurbished up to the year 2000 has the potential to contain asbestos materials.

It has been used both in a cement board or fibre board for facias and soffits. The council are complying with their legal duties to identify asbestos containing materials before work starts on refurbishment.

Hope this helps

The Orange Seagull · Oct 24, 2016

Had to do an asbestos awareness course recently and they said that asbestos was used in this country up until the year 2000. When doing any work on a building that was built before 2000 we have to be careful and assume that it could possibly contain asbestos.

Sussexscots · Oct 24, 2016

Importation and use of Brown and Blue Asbestos was banned in 1985, however, it wasn't until 1992 that the law was changed to outlaw some uses of white asbestos.

Complete ban on import and use of Chrysotile (White Asbestos) didn't happen until 1999. Years after most countries banned the stuff.

Even the revised act of 2012 allowed Asbestos products such as cement, tiles and plasters to remain if manufactured before 1999.

Maybe query on what basis the council feel the survey is necessary but I imagine you'll get the "Health and Safety" response even if there's nothing to suggest that Asbestos was involved in the property construction.

Probably not what you wanted to hear

GT49er · Oct 24, 2016

brightonbaz said:
Asbestos (in all its forms) was finally banned in the UK in 1999. Crocidolite (blue) and Amosite (brown) were banned in the mid eighties. It is commonly found in many commercial and domestic properties as well as plant and equipment such as heating systems. Therefore any structure etc. built or refurbished up to the year 2000 has the potential to contain asbestos materials.

It has been used both in a cement board or fibre board for facias and soffits. The council are complying with their legal duties to identify asbestos containing materials before work starts on refurbishment.

Hope this helps

Sometimes used in Artex too, apparently.

Paul Reids Sock · Oct 24, 2016

From the looks of things I would check your contract with them.

Looks like they were doing programmed works and only included the Asbestos bit as Major works?

if that is the case I would check through the contract and you may be able to get off with a technicality. Something like them forewarning you about Major Works and any charges. They may have forgotten that as the main work was programmed.

They probably have it all covered and as previously stated they are complying with what they have to do. Best I would say that you can hope for it a technicality to argue your way out of a charge. I do it fairly regularly as I quite enjoy the contracts and wording etc. in them as well as regulation surrounding them that is missed on a surprising amount of occasions.

BensGrandad · Oct 24, 2016

One of my sons works for the major asbestos removal firm in Sussex and has just completed the course for carrying out the removal of asbestos when he calls in on his way home from work I will ask him.

brightonbaz · Oct 24, 2016

The Council have legal duties to manage asbestos in the properties that they own/manage. Regulation 4 of the Control of Asbestos Regulations. Same regulations also require that asbestos is identified before work starts which could disturb it, hence the survey.

This building sounds like it is a block of flats (or similar) and as the Council (I am assuming they are the landlord) will have a duty to identify these materials in all the shared/common areas. As it is likely that the soffits/facias etc. are fitted to numerous dwellings these would be deemed "common" and as such I suspect they are sharing the burden of the costs with all the private home owners. Those who are renting from the council would not share the same burden as it is likely that maintenance costs are included within the rent they pay.

smeg · Oct 24, 2016

Neil said:
Can anyone tell me when Asbestos was stopped from being used in house construction.
Reason why I'm asking is that the Council said they were doing the fascias and soffits on my Leasehold maisonette flat that I bought from the Council and they wanted to charge me for an asbestos survey on my bill when it was programmed works as they do all the exterior works but I was billed for as its classed as a MAJOR WORKS. But the maisonette flat was built by the Council in 1988 as was the whole estate.
Can I despute the £400 fee as I am sure asbestos was stopped being used well before that date .
thanks

£400 is a bargain, cost me way more to remove all the asbestos in my artex ceilings at the house I moved into.

yxee · Oct 24, 2016

Just makes you wonder, they knew it was bad for you in the 1930s, and it took 70 years to stop fitting the stuff. How much human effort and cost had been wasted on this delay? How much more on the next hundred years? Billions surely?

I can't think of many greater wastes, except for war. It's really staggering.

Bones · Oct 24, 2016

yxee said:
Just makes you wonder, they knew it was bad for you in the 1930s, and it took 70 years to stop fitting the stuff. How much human effort and cost had been wasted on this delay? How much more on the next hundred years? Billions surely?

I can't think of many greater wastes, except for war. It's really staggering.

and to think it's not even totally banned in some countries including USA. Still mined in Canada too.

Sent from my SM-A310F using Tapatalk

Notters · Oct 24, 2016

From what I experienced working in the industry, there may be a little but it's likely to be trace quantities and in materials where the fibres are unlikely to be released, such as cement.

Bones said:
and to think it's not even totally banned in some countries including USA. Still mined in Canada too.

It's a very useful material!

brightonbaz · Oct 24, 2016

Bones said:
and to think it's not even totally banned in some countries including USA. Still mined in Canada too.

Sent from my SM-A310F using Tapatalk

Canada were exporting asbestos to India circa 2012. India has an expanding asbestos industry and a large health issue in relation to asbestos related diseases. In the UK around 4500 people die each year from asbestos related diseases. This is on the increase as well.

It is not an old mans story either....many of today's tradesmen are at risk and there are still examples of secondary exposures leading to early death.

If you are a tradesman and you are reading this please take time to inform yourself about the risks and how to protect yourself and others e.g. your families. HSE's website has lots of useful information on the subject.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/asbestos/

penny's harmonica · Oct 24, 2016

Neil said:
Can anyone tell me when Asbestos was stopped from being used in house construction.
Reason why I'm asking is that the Council said they were doing the fascias and soffits on my Leasehold maisonette flat that I bought from the Council and they wanted to charge me for an asbestos survey on my bill when it was programmed works as they do all the exterior works but I was billed for as its classed as a MAJOR WORKS. But the maisonette flat was built by the Council in 1988 as was the whole estate.
Can I despute the £400 fee as I am sure asbestos was stopped being used well before that date .
thanks

In the unlikely event your soffits do contain asbestos it would be the cement based type which is virtually harmless unless you crushed it up and rubbed your nose in it. You could break a piece off and take it in a sealed bag to Amstech in Newhaven where for under £100( from memory) they would test it and give you the results the following day. Best check with the contractors first as they may insist on their people carrying out the test.

Neil · Oct 24, 2016

Paul Reids Sock said:
From the looks of things I would check your contract with them.

Looks like they were doing programmed works and only included the Asbestos bit as Major works?

if that is the case I would check through the contract and you may be able to get off with a technicality. Something like them forewarning you about Major Works and any charges. They may have forgotten that as the main work was programmed.

They probably have it all covered and as previously stated they are complying with what they have to do. Best I would say that you can hope for it a technicality to argue your way out of a charge. I do it fairly regularly as I quite enjoy the contracts and wording etc. in them as well as regulation surrounding them that is missed on a surprising amount of occasions.

but if the estate was built by the same builder for the council and are all the same surely you don't need an asbestos report for all the dwellings

BensGrandad · Oct 24, 2016

penny's harmonica said:
In the unlikely event your soffits do contain asbestos it would be the cement based type which is virtually harmless unless you crushed it up and rubbed your nose in it. You could break a piece off and take it in a sealed bag to Amstech in Newhaven where for under £100( from memory) they would test it and give you the results the following day. Best check with the contractors first as they may insist on their people carrying out the test.

Thats who my youngest son works for on asbestos removal.

Paul Reids Sock · Oct 24, 2016

Neil said:
but if the estate was built by the same builder for the council and are all the same surely you don't need an asbestos report for all the dwellings

There will probably be some regulation that states that they all have to undergo the same tests incase some were built with different batches of material or some alterations have been made and not properly logged.

Its the sort of thing Process and Quality Management People (like me so be nice!) will have put in to try and protect people. Even if only 1 life is saved for the hundreds of people that get annoyed then it is all worth it.

That's why I would say to have a check in your contract with them. See if they have to give notification of works and your right to refuse them. Or, whether there are any steps and notifications that they have failed to follow. If there is going to be a financial implication then you should at least be told in advance to give you time to make arrangements for the money to be available.

You probably have some form of appeal in that the works were stated as programmed works and therefore may be included in a yearly surcharge. The upgrade to Major would require some form of extra planning and a few checklists being marked off, if all of them aren't ticked off then you may be able to say they are not major and therefore included in a monthly/yearly charge. Or it may be a case that you have the opportunity to request that they do not happen due to them being major and not essential. There will be loads in the wording that is ambiguous enough for you to argue. Eventually they will determine that it is more cost efficient to just write it off than to keep corresponding with you unless, of course, your contract states that they can do this and charge and you have signed it. In which case you will be stuck with it, but at least you will know that you are safe/require work to make you safe

BensGrandad · Oct 24, 2016

penny's harmonica said:
In the unlikely event your soffits do contain asbestos it would be the cement based type which is virtually harmless unless you crushed it up and rubbed your nose in it. You could break a piece off and take it in a sealed bag to Amstech in Newhaven where for under £100( from memory) they would test it and give you the results the following day. Best check with the contractors first as they may insist on their people carrying out the test.

I have just spoken to my son and he said he thinks it is £80 but wont be held to that but what he did say is if taking it to them they will not accept it if it is not in a suitable sealed bag like a sandwich bag and taped up thus sealed. An ordinary brown paper bag or carrier bag is not classed as a suitable.bag.

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