[Politics] Brexit

Lincoln Imp · Sep 9, 2019

CHAPPERS said:
What about in Northern Ireland and Scotland? They aren't inside the M25. Or are we just talking about England?

Of England's major cities, only Birmingham voted to leave, with a tight result of 50.4% (Leave) to 49.6% (Remain).

Liverpool (LEAVE: 41.8% REMAIN: 58.2%), Manchester: (LEAVE: 39.6% REMAIN: 60.4%) and Bristol: (LEAVE 38.3% REMAIN: 61.7%) all voted overwhelmingly to remain.

lawros left foot · Sep 9, 2019

bashlsdir said:
I have listened to John Mann a few times on the radio. When he speaks you ask yourself, where are the rest of you. Talks complete sense.

If, you’re a Tory.

Herr Tubthumper · Sep 9, 2019

Westdene Seagull said:
Kind of shows how anti-Semitic Labour really have become for one of their MPs to resign to join a Tory government because of it.

Or shoes how slippery (the tedious) John Mann is.

Thunder Bolt · Sep 9, 2019

Westdene Seagull said:
Kind of shows how anti-Semitic Labour really have become for one of their MPs to resign to join a Tory government because of it.

He's voted against Labour in most of the votes in any case as has Hoey, so it won't make any difference.

theonlymikey · Sep 9, 2019

Sam Coates Sky
(@SamCoatesSky)
Exc: No10 has seen polling that means if there was an election now, Boris Johnson would do worse than Theresa May, according to Jason Stein, who was a Tory special advisor and Amber Rudd aide until Saturday night

Here’s what he told me for a Sky News interview: pic.twitter.com/bDszzB2Ky7

September 9, 2019

Gwylan · Sep 9, 2019

Westdene Seagull said:
Kind of shows how anti-Semitic Labour really have become for one of their MPs to resign to join a Tory government because of it.

Here's a good piece by a jewish writer on how this talk of "anti-semitic" Labour is stirring up trouble for jews.

I have a jewish friend in north London who's a member of the Labour party and he's been saying similar things for a number of years.

beorhthelm · Sep 9, 2019

theonlymikey said:
Sam Coates Sky
(@SamCoatesSky)
Exc: No10 has seen polling that means if there was an election now, Boris Johnson would do worse than Theresa May, according to Jason Stein, who was a Tory special advisor and Amber Rudd aide until Saturday night

Here’s what he told me for a Sky News interview: pic.twitter.com/bDszzB2Ky7

September 9, 2019

its amusing the response, summarised as "its a trap!". seems fair analysis, both the polling and why its out there. based on polling Corbyn will do worse too, so we'll be no better off with a hung parliament, only with more SNP/Liberal MPs.

Is it PotG? · Sep 9, 2019

beorhthelm said:
.....based on polling Corbyn will do worse too, so we'll be no better off with a hung parliament, only with more SNP/Liberal MPs.

Maybe a couple of Brexit Party MPs too, to add to the blender of ideas.

Ernest · Sep 9, 2019

theonlymikey said:
Fairly easy in practice. Vote of no confidence and whipping conseravtives in favour of national unity with Corbyn as temp PM?

But can the government table such a bill or does it have to be under the FTPA?

I meant more the annihilate Corbyn in the poll when all he has done is annihilate his own majority

ManOfSussex · Sep 9, 2019

Westdene Seagull said:
Nice whataboutism as your mate Watford Zero would say. And you haven't even attempted to answer the point .... you know, the remainers new conspiracy theory.

It's nice when you try and join in (a bit like when you talk about this 'deal' that you voted for but can't explain) but you really don't need to bother replying to posts made by me at 01:40 after copious amounts of Guinness and Malbec.

BensGrandad · Sep 9, 2019

Is there any doubt that Boris would win an GE comfortably hence why he wants one and Corbyn doesnt.

ManOfSussex · Sep 9, 2019

beorhthelm said:
i didnt vote and i long since conceded we remain, i see so much nonsense from both sides. we know there's a lot of lies and here we have one probably originating from a political corner that are not even remainers, to play upon a popular theme against tax avoidance. address the point, why would brexit be driven by one recent issue when objection to EU has been around 25 years, and legislation noted is in our law already?

and perhaps we should ask why the population became more engaged in the issue to swing from 10% to 52%, because im sure thats more important to understand how to change peoples minds, sell the EU rather than constantly disparage the leave voter.

The population became more engaged in the issue because the population was ultimately sold a pup because The EU was dressed up as being the source of all our ills for quite some time. It's quite simple really - The big bad wolf in Brussels. Throw in a 'man of the people' with a public school accent shouting at Johnny Foreigner in The EU Parliament - inherent deference and the class system does the rest. People refer to The Prime Minister as 'Boris'. One day they will wake up. If they think hard enough they can realise that 10 years ago they didn't give a **** about The EU, one way or the other.

When I got kicked out of Brighton University in 1997 I ended up, for 6 months, working in Brighton at an office that was, in hindsight, the best time of my life. You actually looked forward to going to work on a Monday morning. Anyway at this office however a very important Sussex tradition was observed, which I respected and enjoyed, called 'Hastings bashing'. Let's put aside the fact that Hastings Old Town is basically as bad as Brighton & Hove became after it got city status 20 years ago and is infested with pretentious middle class drips - Hastings is still a derived coastal town with all the associated indicators - drug use, unemployment, benefit reliance, suicide, crime etc, etc, etc - This is what fundamentally ****s me off with Brexit - Turkeys have voted for Christmas, useful idiots have put a cross in a box on a ballot paper. Johnson, Farage, Rees-Mogg - they are the 'establishment' - they're just a different variation of it.

It bemuses me that people dispute the £350m a week slogan from 3 years ago. Vote Leave and Cummings himself admit it was crucial. Are people who deny it's influence such sheltered middle class drips in a bubble that they don't know people existing on state benefits? I assume quite possibly they are. Quite possibly the vilification, promulgated for 30 years by the right wing press, of benefit claimants plays a part in this denial. If nothing else, Brexit has exposed all the warts of this country that were simmering beneath the surface, including the class system and that fact this country is a union of 4 nations, dominated by English, public school, Oxbridge, clueless ****heads. In hindsight, post 1945/empire it was amazing that The UK lasted as long as it did, but here we are.

The problem is this never ends and there's no way out. Increasingly and in all honesty I genuinely come across to wanting 'no deal'. However I want it to be the miners strike of 1984, the poll tax riots of 1990, the fuels strikes of 2000 and the riots of 2011 all rolled into one, so that English public school, xenophobic, arrogant, nostalgic, inherent superiority, ****witery is exposed for what it is.

brakespear · Sep 9, 2019

Guinness Boy said:
Leave: verb

1 - go away from / depart permanantly from / cease attending
2 - allow or cause to remain (yes, genuinely) - "the parts he disliked he would alter and the parts he didn't dislike he would leave"

https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/leave

So, you see, leave does mean leave. It also means remain

In your case, however, the country had a chance to leave before March 31 2019 and chose to take option 2 rather than option 1 - though it was remainers voting to leave and leavers voting to remain.

Hopefully that's fried your tiny noggin. Next inane one liner please.

And of course, if you are given permanent residency in the UK you are given indefinite leave to remain

Stato · Sep 9, 2019

Pretty pink fairy said:
As you well know We weren't leaving under that agreement

So what you now seem to be saying is that leave doesn't mean leave?

Then what does mean leave?

What will the Brexit Party and the ERG be satisfied with? And, No, the answer can't be 'Leave with No Deal', because what hasn't been mentioned by Johnson or Farage is that falling out with no deal is just the most economically damaging way of separating and still leaves all of the separation questions to be answered. It still doesn't explain what our future relationship with our biggest trading partners will look like. It still doesn't answer citizenship questions. It still doesn't solve the NI border issue. It still doesn't answer questions about our security.

It doesn't define any kind of future. That has been deliberately policy throughout this national insanity. At the exact moment whichever rich, well-protected, ideolog is in charge finally lets us know what a post-EU Britain will look like for the rest of us, a small boy in the crowd will be able to shout: 'Look at the King, Look at the King....'

Take it away Danny:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t80UDdbV3Mk

lawros left foot · Sep 9, 2019

BensGrandad said:
Is there any doubt that Boris would win an GE comfortably hence why he wants one and Corbyn doesnt.

Johnson wants one, at the moment, because he has painted himself into a corner, and a GE is the only realistic way out for him.
The rest of Parliament doesn’t want one, because they can’t trust the PM not to break the law, through chicanery.
They have to wait until there is absolutely no chance Johnson can take us out with a no deal.

I’m not sure everyone believes the Tories will win an election ‘ comfortably ‘

Don’t believe all you read in the Mail, or Sun , BG.

Gwylan · Sep 9, 2019

BensGrandad said:
Is there any doubt that Boris would win an GE comfortably hence why he wants one and Corbyn doesnt.

Bookies don't: they have hung parliament as odds-on and bookies are normally excellent judges of these things. The opinion polls are volatile at the moment: there were two over the weekend, one shoing aTory lead of 10% and one showing a Labour lead of 2%, so it's certainly not clear that Johnson would win.

And, as LLF, points out, it's not true to say that Johnson wants one and Corbyn doesn't - Johnson doesn't want one but feels he has no other choice, while Corbyn does want one but wants it after 31 October.

Peter Ward · Sep 9, 2019

ManOfSussex said:
The population became more engaged in the issue because the population was ultimately sold a pup because The EU was dressed up as being the source of all our ills for quite some time. It's quite simple really - The big bad wolf in Brussels. Throw in a 'man of the people' with a public school accent shouting at Johnny Foreigner in The EU Parliament - inherent deference and the class system does the rest. People refer to The Prime Minister as 'Boris'. One day they will wake up. If they think hard enough they can realise that 10 years ago they didn't give a **** about The EU, one way or the other.

When I got kicked out of Brighton University in 1997 I ended up, for 6 months, working in Brighton at an office that was, in hindsight, the best time of my life. You actually looked forward to going to work on a Monday morning. Anyway at this office however a very important Sussex tradition was observed, which I respected and enjoyed, called 'Hastings bashing'. Let's put aside the fact that Hastings Old Town is basically as bad as Brighton & Hove became after it got city status 20 years ago and is infested with pretentious middle class drips - Hastings is still a derived coastal town with all the associated indicators - drug use, unemployment, benefit reliance, suicide, crime etc, etc, etc - This is what fundamentally ****s me off with Brexit - Turkeys have voted for Christmas, useful idiots have put a cross in a box on a ballot paper. Johnson, Farage, Rees-Mogg - they are the 'establishment' - they're just a different variation of it.

It bemuses me that people dispute the £350m a week slogan from 3 years ago. Vote Leave and Cummings himself admit it was crucial. Are people who deny it's influence such sheltered middle class drips in a bubble that they don't know people existing on state benefits? I assume quite possibly they are. Quite possibly the vilification, promulgated for 30 years by the right wing press, of benefit claimants plays a part in this denial. If nothing else, Brexit has exposed all the warts of this country that were simmering beneath the surface, including the class system and that fact this country is a union of 4 nations, dominated by English, public school, Oxbridge, clueless ****heads. In hindsight, post 1945/empire it was amazing that The UK lasted as long as it did, but here we are.

The problem is this never ends and there's no way out. Increasingly and in all honesty I genuinely come across to wanting 'no deal'. However I want it to be the miners strike of 1984, the poll tax riots of 1990, the fuels strikes of 2000 and the riots of 2011 all rolled into one, so that English public school, xenophobic, arrogant, nostalgic, inherent superiority, ****witery is exposed for what it is.

That's the best post i've read on NSC, and I too live in the Hastings area. Well said. The thing is everyone talks about no deal, as if its just one deal or arrangement that's not been agreed. But there are hundreds if not thousands of deal arrangements in place from 40 years of EU membership that will all be torched with 'no deal'. Johnson talks about 'getting Brexit done or else people will stop trusting politicians and the political system,- excuse me. He's done more to trash that trust than anyone, and the backlash of anger will soon be unleashed, when it all goes tets up.

Simster · Sep 9, 2019

BensGrandad said:
Is there any doubt that Boris would win an GE comfortably hence why he wants one and Corbyn doesnt.

No, but you would say that because unfortunately you are stereotypical of the working class tory that will elect these utter fkcwits regardless of reality.

To elaborate a little, nobody is running away from an election - it's just that if one was held on BoZo's terms, he could call one for 17th October, then move the date unilaterally so that it falls after the 31st. Absolutely nobody trusts him, not even people in his own party. Look at the way they talk - apparently they won't break the law but, er, they won't ask for extension either (even when that becomes law). Bozo and his lying, self serving, cowardly front bench are a disgrace.

What will be interesting is the Labour Brexit position once an election is called, which will happen after 31st October.

Kinky Gerbil · Sep 9, 2019

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....s/boris-johnson-rolls-eyes-irish-19911833.amp

Lever · Sep 9, 2019

ManOfSussex said:
The population became more engaged in the issue because the population was ultimately sold a pup because The EU was dressed up as being the source of all our ills for quite some time. It's quite simple really - The big bad wolf in Brussels. Throw in a 'man of the people' with a public school accent shouting at Johnny Foreigner in The EU Parliament - inherent deference and the class system does the rest. People refer to The Prime Minister as 'Boris'. One day they will wake up. If they think hard enough they can realise that 10 years ago they didn't give a **** about The EU, one way or the other.

When I got kicked out of Brighton University in 1997 I ended up, for 6 months, working in Brighton at an office that was, in hindsight, the best time of my life. You actually looked forward to going to work on a Monday morning. Anyway at this office however a very important Sussex tradition was observed, which I respected and enjoyed, called 'Hastings bashing'. Let's put aside the fact that Hastings Old Town is basically as bad as Brighton & Hove became after it got city status 20 years ago and is infested with pretentious middle class drips - Hastings is still a derived coastal town with all the associated indicators - drug use, unemployment, benefit reliance, suicide, crime etc, etc, etc - This is what fundamentally ****s me off with Brexit - Turkeys have voted for Christmas, useful idiots have put a cross in a box on a ballot paper. Johnson, Farage, Rees-Mogg - they are the 'establishment' - they're just a different variation of it.

It bemuses me that people dispute the £350m a week slogan from 3 years ago. Vote Leave and Cummings himself admit it was crucial. Are people who deny it's influence such sheltered middle class drips in a bubble that they don't know people existing on state benefits? I assume quite possibly they are. Quite possibly the vilification, promulgated for 30 years by the right wing press, of benefit claimants plays a part in this denial. If nothing else, Brexit has exposed all the warts of this country that were simmering beneath the surface, including the class system and that fact this country is a union of 4 nations, dominated by English, public school, Oxbridge, clueless ****heads. In hindsight, post 1945/empire it was amazing that The UK lasted as long as it did, but here we are.

The problem is this never ends and there's no way out. Increasingly and in all honesty I genuinely come across to wanting 'no deal'. However I want it to be the miners strike of 1984, the poll tax riots of 1990, the fuels strikes of 2000 and the riots of 2011 all rolled into one, so that English public school, xenophobic, arrogant, nostalgic, inherent superiority, ****witery is exposed for what it is.

I really cannot argue with any of this; the only thing I would add is that Johnston et al have done an extremely clever and effective job in getting the poor and oppressed to feel a sense of 'ownership' of the Brexit debacle - even though the acknowledged 'bumps in the road' will adversely affect them most and the drivers of Brexit least!
That is also why I have a problem with the 'Pretorian Guard' who assertively proclaim the perceived 'prize' of the 2016 referendum.

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[Politics] Brexit

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