[Politics] Brexit

The Clamp · Sep 5, 2019

pastafarian said:
snigger
one comment i think, to someone (not ppf) who seems to know the same person as me and wasnt about pwoper nawty biznis on the terraces either. One tends to meet an awful lot of characters over the decades especially when travelling away. half the fun of going to football and meeting new people. You should actually try going to football one week.

Now I remember why I stopped engaging with you. Assumptive and boring.

Chicken Run · Sep 5, 2019

Brighton Lines said:
Nope. See above. It was a war of the ruling classes.

The only reason common folk got involved was to feed their kids.

Alternatively you could have just typed, good point well made?

Kinky Gerbil · Sep 5, 2019

The Complete Badger said:
It would be quite interesting to see what happened if Labour continue to refuse to back an election as it would consign us to three more years of effectively no government being in place. In many ways it would be quite a good tactic as it would leave Johnson with about as much power as a wet paper bag. Maybe they’ll leave him there a bit longer to hang himself?

Personally, I wouldn’t agree to an election till he’s gone to the EU himself to ask for the extension.

Once that’s done call it

Herr Tubthumper · Sep 5, 2019

Morning everyone!

Klaas · Sep 5, 2019

pastafarian said:
Which democratic procedures have been scrapped by Johnson to impose the will of the leader?

It was a straight forward enough question. Grow up.

Kinky Gerbil · Sep 5, 2019

The Complete Badger said:
It would be quite interesting to see what happened if Labour continue to refuse to back an election as it would consign us to three more years of effectively no government being in place. In many ways it would be quite a good tactic as it would leave Johnson with about as much power as a wet paper bag. Maybe they’ll leave him there a bit longer to hang himself?

Personally, I wouldn’t agree to an election till he’s gone to the EU himself to ask for the extension.

Once that’s done call it

Happy Exile · Sep 5, 2019

Kinky Gerbils said:
Personally, I wouldn’t agree to an election till he’s gone to the EU himself to ask for the extension.

Once that’s done call it

Johnson has already shown himself to be completely incompetent and out of his depth and the anger against him in his own party is quite something to see. If Labour have any sense they'll give him another couple of months to implode the Tory party and then even Corbyn might beat him.

Blue3 · Sep 5, 2019

pastafarian said:
Not really interesting as to why its being shown now, not relevant to anything happening presently anyway.
If anyone is bonkers enough to think its happening now or just on the horizon that free and fair competitive elections will stop, free speech will be in the dustbin, most political opponents will be jailed, concentration camps will be built and undesirables will be disappearing in the night, then they probably need a straight jacket and a box of mattress protectors.
Probably interesting programme though, glad I set the series to record.

It's very relavant the far right are not going to make the same mistakes of the past, they come in various guises they are ever present intermingling within every level of society most supporters would be horrified to be associated with the Nazi of old.

The far right are unrecognisable from the crude versions of the 1930s being interwoven into core of the establishment we need to be aware of the cancer that it is and stand up to call it out for what it is evil

Happy Exile · Sep 5, 2019

Blue3 said:
It's very relavant the far right are not going to make the same mistakes of the past, they come in various guises they are ever present intermingling within every level of society most supporters would be horrified to be associated with the Nazi of old.

The far right are unrecognisable from the crude versions of the 1930s being interwoven into core of the establishment we need to be aware of the cancer that it is and stand up to call it out for what it is evil

Very true. People make a huge mistake for thinking fascism has to look like Nazism before it's worth calling out. Looking at the 12 established warning signs for fascism and comparing them to the UK and USA today shows we're in a troubling place.

Baldseagull · Sep 5, 2019

dingodan said:
Trust in politics was already very low, with pretty much eveyone. Around half of people will like the fact that Brexit will be stopped. Around half will hate it.

But all will be forced to take note that their views, and their votes, don't actually matter.

If you think there aren't going to be severe consequences as a result of that, I'd suggest you haven't yet taken a step back from the side of this particular debate that you are on and looked at the bigger picture.

Democracy depends on consent, and consent depends on trust. When trust is lost so is democracy. & with that goes everything else. Maybe you think a society can carry on in the face of that regardless. Maybe you are right. But I worry about what that society will come to look like, and how it will manage to function without eventually degenerating into something ugly.

Brexit has not been stopped, just the worst and most damaging version has been. Brexit most likely has a new deadline, but sadly for me, it is still on the agenda.

It is quite pathetic for you to talk about a loss of trust in our democracy when Parliament has democratically stopped No Deal, and yet you were delighted by the referendum result obtained with illegal advertising, lies and deceit, delighted by Johnson closing Parliament for 5 weeks, and probably had a little warm glow as Johnson and Mogg stood there and lied about the reason for doing it.

Gwylan · Sep 5, 2019

Brighton Lines said:
I like what you say but, as Yanis said two years ago (and he knows the EU better than anyone), the mainland wanted this to fail.

Rory is a top mediator but you can't smash a brick wall with a pencil.

Nothing since has persuaded me otherwise.

Can't agree with this. It's not just in the UK's interest to have a deal, it's in the EU's interests too - that's why they've already agreed to two extensions (and, the signs are, would agree to a third too). If the EU want negotiations to fail, why didn't they just let us crash out in March?

No, the EU is very keen to get a deal and foster decent trading relations with the UK, it's our intransigence that's getting in the way.

Baldseagull · Sep 5, 2019

dingodan said:
It absolutely will not happen.

I wish I shared your beliefs for once.

Baldseagull · Sep 5, 2019

BensGrandad said:
How will the EU leaders be viewing the latest moves, do they want an extension? Would they rather us leave with no deal than grant and extension as they have indicated that an extension is not on the table. How will they view the state of our MPs all wanting their own way like spoiled children.

The EU will grant an extension to allow a General Election, which may produce a Government with enough of a majority to implement it's will. They will not view our MP's as spoiled children all wanting their own way, they will see that the HoC is divided and hope that a new Government could bring some unity one way or the other. It is another reason why they would never offer Johnson any concession, they have no belief that he could sell it to Parliament even if they did.

Kinky Gerbil · Sep 5, 2019

Happy Exile said:
Johnson has already shown himself to be completely incompetent and out of his depth and the anger against him in his own party is quite something to see. If Labour have any sense they'll give him another couple of months to implode the Tory party and then even Corbyn might beat him.

Maybe tell him they have run out of time because somebody decided to shut down parliament

Herr Tubthumper · Sep 5, 2019

Gwylan said:
The Labour party split into the SDP nearly 40 years ago, that was a party certainly at war with itself. And then it expelled the Militant members a few years later. The Tories haven't been that extreme but Thatcher had her 'wets' to contend with and John Major had his '********', so it's not all been sweetness and light in that camp either.

But there was enough common ground between strands of the party to get a deal done.

No, it was never on the cards because May put party before country - she could have had a mixed negotiating team but had such a narrow vision of what would have worked. But imagine a team of, for example, Keir Starmer, Rory Stewart and Vince Cable - a prominent lawyer, a diplomat and an economist - working together - it could have achieved something,

Instead we had De Pfeffel, Thick as mince and Liam 'Easiest trade deal in history' Fox batting for our side - no wonder they were back in the paviliion before the lunch interval (or drinks interval in Mince's case)

Excellent post. Great point about that cross-party team of Starmer, Stewart and Cable.

Pretty pink fairy · Sep 5, 2019

Herr Tubthumper said:
Excellent post. Great point about that cross-party team of Starmer, Stewart and Cable.

Three absolute ***** off the highest order , sore undemocratic losers FACT
regards
DT

Deleted member 22389 · Sep 5, 2019

Pretty pink fairy said:
Three absolute ***** off the highest order , sore undemocratic losers FACT
regards
DT

17M+ voters cheated. This is not the end, but trust in our politicians is at a BIG FAT ZERO now.

Why don't these politicians just tell the truth, they have no intention of us ever leaving the EU.

Thunder Bolt · Sep 5, 2019

bashlsdir said:
17M+ voters cheated. This is not the end, but trust in our politicians is at a BIG FAT ZERO now.

Why don't these politicians just tell the truth, they have no intention of us ever leaving the EU.

Which politicians? Which ones are lying and which ones are telling the truth?

Klaas · Sep 5, 2019

bashlsdir said:
17M+ voters cheated. This is not the end, but trust in our politicians is at a BIG FAT ZERO now.

Well I wouldn't say the voters themselves cheated but it's good to see you now accept that Vote Leave and Leave.eu both broke electoral law.
I wouldn't chat about it with Das Reich though if I were you. The massive racist won't accept it.

Deleted member 22389 · Sep 5, 2019

Thunder Bolt said:
Which politicians? Which ones are lying and which ones are telling the truth?

They are all a bunch of liars
Dingodan is correct, it's pretty much over in my book.

How stupid of me to think our politicians would listen to the views of people.

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