[Politics] Brexit

Trufflehound · Sep 12, 2019

Westdene Seagull said:
And yet the Finance Bill 2019 that introduced all of these new regulations got Royal Assent in February 2019.

Link please. I mean one showing that EU tax transparency laws passed into UK law at that time.

Edit: You are talking about February 2019, and yet it was apparently all still up for grabs in March: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-parliaments-47443023

beorhthelm · Sep 12, 2019

Trufflehound said:
Why do you keep repeating this same lie? It isn't in law yet. The draft legislation was published in June and is currently at the consultation phase, which is due to be completed on October 11. It won't come into force until July 2020.

https://www.ey.com/gl/en/services/t...-draft-proposal-on-mandatory-disclosure-rules

Of course, if the UK crashes out before then, then the government won't have to apply it. Which is what a lot of those at the top with things to hide want, including many posh Tory twats in government and some of those rabidly anti-EU press barons that control the headines in the Daily Mail, Sun etc.

your link highlights one provision of the EU regulations, specifically to disclousure and focused on main benefit test. i.e. can you honestly say the tax structure you are using is not aimed at tax avoidance, aka artificial. its fairly low bar to reach. meanwhile the main wider reaching provisions are already in law. there's a HMRC analysis of the tax avoidance directive implementation that shows they expect negligable tax from the changes, because we are already aligned.

easier to find than i thought https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...other-mismatches-anti-tax-avoidance-directive

pastafarian · Sep 12, 2019

Trufflehound said:
Why do you keep repeating this same lie? It isn't in law yet. The draft legislation was published in June and is currently at the consultation phase, which is due to be completed on October 11. It won't come into force until July 2020.

https://www.ey.com/gl/en/services/t...-draft-proposal-on-mandatory-disclosure-rules

Of course, if the UK crashes out before then, then the government won't have to apply it. Which is what a lot of those at the top with things to hide want, including many posh Tory twats in government and some of those rabidly anti-EU press barons that control the headines in the Daily Mail, Sun etc.

You have got your directives mixed up. Westdene is correct with the facts of the directive being talked about. The directive the conspiracy idiots bang on about and which is being mentioned is the Tax Avoidance Directive and its amendment that has to implemented by jan 2020. This is the one that was proposed by the commission prior to the referendum and the one that apparently made the Tory “toffs” sit up and say this is why we need to leave the EU.

It is EU Directive 2016/1164 (Anti-Tax Avoidance Directive- ATAD) -Presented by the commission in 28 jan 2016
Adopted by the council 20 June 2016
Came into force on 12 July 2016
Amended by EU Directive 2017/952
Adopted on 27 May 2017
To be implemented by january 2020-

The one you have given is not the Tax Avoidance Directive

It is Directive 2018/822 (Disclosable Arrangements DAC6)
Adopted 25 May 2018
Entered into force 25 june 2018
Members to publish provisions by 31 Dec 2019
To be implemented by 1 July 2020
It amended Directive 2011/16/EU.
Adopted 15 feb 2011
Was implemented January 2013

Not sure how an amendment from 2018 to a raft of measures already in force from 2013 made the Tories "toffs" think we must have a leave vote win the referendum.
In any event I see the draft legislation on Mandatory Disclosure Rules (MDR) is more detailed than the Directive and it comments “ leaving the EU will not reduce the UK’s resolve to tackle international tax avoidance and evasion and that the UK will remain an active and influential member of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) and the G20”

Not what the conspiracy brigade want to hear im sure, perhaps you should ask them which version of their conspiracy they are going with this week.

pastafarian · Sep 12, 2019

Thunder Bolt said:
I often ask Brexiters if they know who elects the WTO, seeing as they are so happy to abide by those rules. I never get an answer.

No surprise no one has bothered to answer.
What do you actually think the WTO is if not a forum of member governments (and the EU) who formulate and agree global trade rules amongst themselves?
What trade rule makers need to be elected above the existing rule makers who are the members governments themselves?
Perhaps, in order for your question, that no one bothers to answer, to first make any sense, you should simply say why you are unhappy to abide by WTO rules made by WTO members, even though we apply these rules now anyway by way of both being members of the WTO in our own right and being in the EU who are also members of the WTO and who apply WTO rules right now too.

Pretty pink fairy · Sep 12, 2019

Different day same old shit , Get ready for Brexit
regards
DF

Eeyore · Sep 12, 2019

Pretty pink fairy said:
Different day same old shit , Get ready for Brexit
regards
DF

Something ironic about that one, Mr Fairy.

drew · Sep 12, 2019

bashlsdir said:
Moderate worst case scenario. So there we have it, worst case.

It's amazing, you listen to Radio 4 and they speak to somebody from customs at Dover, who said they are prepared for No Deal, everything is calm.

Brexit day will be like any other day.

Two things, firstly, how can something be described as moderate and worst in the same sentence?

Secondly, how do you answer the fact that the same document leaked to the journalist was headed up Base case scenario?

Simster · Sep 12, 2019

drew said:
Two things, firstly, how can something be described as moderate and worst in the same sentence?

Secondly, how do you answer the fact that the same document leaked to the journalist was headed up Base case scenario?

[MENTION=22389]bashlsdir[/MENTION] doesn't answer awkward questions. He pretends he hasn't seen them.

However, if you say something that pointedly highlights his blatant lack of intelligence, he absolutely does see those. And makes a right f*king FUSS about it.

sydney · Sep 12, 2019

they are trying to bore you to death ...looks like its working ...!!

pb21 · Sep 12, 2019

pastafarian said:
You have got your directives mixed up. Westdene is correct with the facts of the directive being talked about. The directive the conspiracy idiots bang on about and which is being mentioned is the Tax Avoidance Directive and its amendment that has to implemented by jan 2020. This is the one that was proposed by the commission prior to the referendum and the one that apparently made the Tory “toffs” sit up and say this is why we need to leave the EU.

It is EU Directive 2016/1164 (Anti-Tax Avoidance Directive- ATAD) -Presented by the commission in 28 jan 2016
Adopted by the council 20 June 2016
Came into force on 12 July 2016
Amended by EU Directive 2017/952
Adopted on 27 May 2017
To be implemented by january 2020-

The one you have given is not the Tax Avoidance Directive

It is Directive 2018/822 (Disclosable Arrangements DAC6)
Adopted 25 May 2018
Entered into force 25 june 2018
Members to publish provisions by 31 Dec 2019
To be implemented by 1 July 2020
It amended Directive 2011/16/EU.
Adopted 15 feb 2011
Was implemented January 2013

Not sure how an amendment from 2018 to a raft of measures already in force from 2013 made the Tories "toffs" think we must have a leave vote win the referendum.
In any event I see the draft legislation on Mandatory Disclosure Rules (MDR) is more detailed than the Directive and it comments “ leaving the EU will not reduce the UK’s resolve to tackle international tax avoidance and evasion and that the UK will remain an active and influential member of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) and the G20”

Not what the conspiracy brigade want to hear im sure, perhaps you should ask them which version of their conspiracy they are going with this week.

Summary
We are seeking views on new rules that will require the disclosure to HMRC of certain cross-border arrangements that could be used to avoid or evade tax.

This consultation closes at
11:45pm on 11 October 2019

The government is consulting on draft regulations to implement an EU directive known as DAC 6.

From 1 July 2020, this will require taxpayers and their advisers to report details of certain cross border arrangements that could be used to avoid or evade tax to HMRC.

This consultation aims to clarify our intended approach for businesses. We welcome comments to help us finalise the regulations and help to ensure that the rules are implemented effectively and proportionately.

https://www.gov.uk/government/consu...ns-implementation-of-disclosable-arrangements

It doesn't take a massive leap of imagination to think that people who are keen on avoiding or evading paying tax (potentially millions of pounds worth) to not like this EU Directive and would be incentivised for the UK to not have to legally oblige.

Mental Lental · Sep 12, 2019

Simster said:
[MENTION=22389]bashlsdir[/MENTION] doesn't answer awkward questions. He pretends he hasn't seen them.

However, if you say something that pointedly highlights his blatant lack of intelligence, he absolutely does see those. And makes a right f*king FUSS about it.

That's true of most of them to be honest.

nicko31 · Sep 12, 2019

ManOfSussex said:
Prior to Maastricht you factored in 3 days for anything going in or out of Europe due to customs and delays and the volumes were nowhere near what they are now. Its going to be an omnishambles.

Remember my first job in the early 90's working in logistics. Used to spend hours with hours tariff books trying to find ways of bring product in from Europe duty-free, sometimes you got away with it, sometimes you were hit with a tariff. It was hopeless. Then the single market came and it was a breeze.

And what do we get from the government yesterday? A story about how travellers will save a couple of quid at Heathrow duty free when travelling in from Europe....

Still waiting from Brexiters on any upside to Brexit....

Thunder Bolt · Sep 12, 2019

Trufflehound said:
Link please. I mean one showing that EU tax transparency laws passed into UK law at that time.

Edit: You are talking about February 2019, and yet it was apparently all still up for grabs in March: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-parliaments-47443023

Brexit disaster capitalism and hedge funds.

https://bylinetimes.com/2019/09/11/...al-crash-out-by-boris-johnsons-leave-backers/

The Clamp · Sep 12, 2019

There’s a lot of anger from leavers on here. Anger is a secondary emotion caused largely by; fear, feelings of inadequacy, confusion / lack of understanding, lack of control.

Interesting.

nicko31 · Sep 12, 2019

Still my favourite Brexit trade slide....

We can still stay as we are, or start our new life with NO DEAL as Afghanistan and work our way back with the begging bowl...

nicko31 · Sep 12, 2019

The Clamp said:
There’s a lot of anger from leavers on here. Anger is a secondary emotion caused largely by; fear, feelings of inadequacy, confusion / lack of understanding, lack of control.

Interesting.

There are numerous side effects of cognitive dissonance, feelings at now meeting reality.

Deleted member 2719 · Sep 12, 2019

Pogue Mahone said:
Is it merely coincidence that an anagram of 'Yellowhammer' is 'Orwell Mayhem'?

Haha, I must admit you made me laugh with that. :lolol:

Is it merely a coincidence that the mindset of remainers only sees negatives in EVERYTHING?

The 4 that liked this are up there with the most negative posters of all time, perhaps you need to find a few positive friends, it can be very contagious.

Tip of the day

Make a positive friend. :banana:

TWOCHOICEStom · Sep 12, 2019

hans kraay fan club said:
At work, we import goods on a daily basis. Every week, we receive deliveries from EU countries, from the US, and from Switzerland.

(Obviously we import less these days, as the state of the Pound against the Euro and the dollar means we are not selling as much as we should be).

Even though we are well set up, and know exactly how to make this all work as smoothly as it can (our head office is IN Switzerland) the non EU imports are a constant ball-ache. I don't think (a lot of) people understand how much easier the internal EU stuff is, in comparison. Every week we have an issue somewhere, with a package held at customs, or an unexplained delay.

Projecting that situation to all the (ex)EU imports, is going to affect every business. Its going to be a shambles.

You should just try to BELIEVE IN BRITAIN a bit harder. Hope that helps.

beorhthelm · Sep 12, 2019

Thunder Bolt said:
Brexit disaster capitalism and hedge funds.

https://bylinetimes.com/2019/09/11/...al-crash-out-by-boris-johnsons-leave-backers/

if i read this correctly, the article is covering short positions in companies. many of these positions are non-contingent on the Brexit event. i can take one example, Metro Bank has some problems from accountancy errors and questions if it is stable. if you want to benefit from Brexit the best short position would be on £, and it makes no mention of this. highly dubious analysis.

Harry Wilson's tackle · Sep 12, 2019

nicko31 said:
Remember my first job in the early 90's working in logistics. Used to spend hours with hours tariff books trying to find ways of bring product in from Europe duty-free, sometimes you got away with it, sometimes you were hit with a tariff. It was hopeless. Then the single market came and it was a breeze.

And what do we get from the government yesterday? A story about how travellers will save a couple of quid at Heathrow duty free when travelling in from Europe....

Still waiting from Brexiters on any upside to Brexit....

*cough* we take back control *cough*

I'm feeling a bit controlly already. It's GREAT!

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