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[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?

  • Total voters
    1,081


Pretty pink fairy

Pretty pink fairy

Banned
Jan 30, 2008
31,981
Baldseagull said:
The advice was given to Parliament, not a decision, Parliament cannot find a way that they can democratically agree on to do it, even though they have agreed to act on that advice and issued A50 notification. Bercow has acted to allow democratic process to take place where the Government has sought to avoid it, I understand you do not like that, but you have it backwards if you think he is acting un-democratically. He is not stopping Brexit, he is allowing MP's to decide democratically how it is done.
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# sticking together
regards
DR
 




Pretty pink fairy

Pretty pink fairy

Banned
Jan 30, 2008
31,981
theonlymikey said:
No, you actually said:



You implied by including them in the same breath that we somehow pay £6bn towards “lavish lifestyles”. This is a lie. It’s been shown to be a lie. Now admit you lied?

As it turns out, you can’t even lie correctly.

“The UK pays more into the EU budget than it gets back.

In 2018 the UK government paid £13 billion to the EU budget, and EU spending on the UK was forecast to be £4 billion. So the UK’s ‘net contribution’ was estimated at nearly £9 billion.

Each year the UK gets a discount on its contributions to the EU—the ‘rebate’—worth about £4 billion last year. Without it the UK would have been liable for £17 billion in contributions.”

https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

Now lets do some totting up shall we?

A £39Bn non negotiable bill for leaving. This is for existing commitments.

£40Bn wiped off the economy so far as a result of reduced foreign investment over Brexit uncertainty before we even left.

Predicted further £40Bn wiped off UK GDP after we have left.

This is before the 1 in 3 chance of a recession. Which by the way, is significantly more likely since the US trade war and Germany downturn.

Oh and lets not forget that a proportion of the EU staff, civil servants and MEP’s are British. I would imagine tax income will reduce as a result also.

Was the £9Bn really worth it?
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Times up Mikey, stop face saving we're leaving, hey you carry on trying to justify remaining , LEAVEMEANS LEAVE as instructed in the Referendum result" it will be your decision "
Regards
DR
 














Baldseagull

Baldseagull

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2012
10,957
Crawley
Lever said:
I don't disagree with your character analysis, but believe pot shots at his personality are generally an irrelevant distraction from the debate about the wisdom and probity of his actions.
Otherwise, I think there is much that could be said about the personality (rather than politics) of Farage, for instance.......
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I agree, but it is polite to recognise and acknowledge it when I find something I can agree with, in posts from leavers.
 
















L

Lever

Well-known member
Feb 6, 2019
5,378
Baldseagull said:
I agree, but it is polite to recognise and acknowledge it when I find something I can agree with, in posts from leavers.
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Thanks for this and I agree that we should endorse Leavers' points when we can.
I just see personal insults as blurring or deflecting away from the main point.
 








Baldseagull

Baldseagull

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2012
10,957
Crawley
bashlsdir said:
However it's broken down, it's still an obscene amount of money to be handing over.
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Depends on what value you get for your money, I agree that it's a lot of cash, but not so large as the £240 Billion welfare budget, which includes financially supporting the delightful Ppf. We are paying tens of Billions in interest on borrowing, and setting ourselves up to require further borrowing, just so we can maintain the austerity levels of spending that were supposed to get us out of debt. Honestly, if public finances are your concern, you are on the wrong team.
 


WATFORD zero

WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 10, 2003
25,864
JC Footy Genius said:
Definitely a sub-optimal outcome but failing to deliver on democratic mandate promises (the result of the referendum will be enacted) and 2017 manifesto commitments (the result of the referendum will be enacted) has consequences, seeking to ignore democratic results people don't like has consequences, having a patronising contempt for people with a different political view (gullible, thicky racists etc) has consequences, blaming the leave voting electorate for the failings of politicians to deliver on their promises has consequences. Trust in politicians and our democratic system is probably at an all-time low which is why rewarding our politician's incompetence by doing exactly what most of them wanted all along (Remain) would also be a 'low point in British political history of almost unimaginable stupidity and crassness' plus it would fatally undermine our democracy in my view.
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I'm so glad to see you are eventually taking my advice and sticking to posting meaningless vacuous optimism, rather than actually trying to talk about any of the real Brexit issues.

If you avoid actually posting about Brexit facts and details it doesn't give me any opportunity to ask you to explain what your fantasy 'good deal' looks like or examples of how your 'Franco-German alliance are dominating the EU's future direction, prioritising an even closer union and their interests over other members ?'.

That way you aren't put on the spot and made to look ridiculous, and I don't have to read your posts cringing to see how you've embarrassed yourself this time.

Much better all round, isn't it ? :)
 
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Baldseagull

Baldseagull

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2012
10,957
Crawley
JC Footy Genius said:
Definitely a sub-optimal outcome but failing to deliver on democratic mandate promises (the result of the referendum will be enacted) and 2017 manifesto commitments (the result of the referendum will be enacted) has consequences, seeking to ignore democratic results people don't like has consequences, having a patronising contempt for people with a different political view (gullible, thicky racists etc) has consequences, blaming the leave voting electorate for the failings of politicians to deliver on their promises has consequences. Trust in politicians and our democratic system is probably at an all-time low which is why rewarding our politician's incompetence by doing exactly what most of them wanted all along (Remain) would also be a 'low point in British political history of almost unimaginable stupidity and crassness' plus it would fatally undermine our democracy in my view.
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But you are quite choosy over which promises you want upheld, if I can do the same, can I have the promise that we would be part of the free trade area, and that we would not leave without a deal?
You know the problem is that not all promises can be met, as some cancel out others. Yet you blame the people that point this out, and not the people that promised the impossible.
Given that there is no brexit that can fulfill all the promises, how do we decide which of them are to be kept and which are to be discarded?
You want to give the decision on that to the people that made the false promises, Johnson, Gove, Mogg etc. and ignore the wishes of the majority of the House of Commons, at some point you are going to have to accept that you are not wanting democracy, you just want to dress up your preferred outcome as democratically reached, when it isn't.
 


Pretty pink fairy

Pretty pink fairy

Banned
Jan 30, 2008
31,981
WATFORD zero said:
I'm so glad to see you are eventually taking my advice and sticking to posting meaningless vacuous optimism, rather than actually trying to talk about any of the real Brexit issues.

If you avoid actually posting about Brexit facts and details it doesn't give me any opportunity to ask you to explain what your fantasy 'good deal' looks like or examples of how your 'Franco-German alliance are dominating the EU's future direction, prioritising an even closer union and their interests over other members ?'.

That way you aren't put on the spot and made to look ridiculous, and I don't have to read your posts cringing to see how you've embarrassed yourself this time.

Much better all round, isn't it ? :)
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The deals dead , we're leaving no deal unless the EU can pull a white Rabbit out of the hat , good to see the Government holding firm Any news on Norway soft Brexit...........






Thought not
regards
DR
 


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