[Politics] Brexit

portslade seagull · Jul 23, 2019

Guinness Boy said:
But who are the bods in charge? Johnson? Farage? Parliament?

FWIW I am a remainer but not a "remoaner". The change in Prime Minister doesn't really change a thing. We have a lame duck deal, a parliament that won't accept no deal and now has very little chance of being prorogued and a PM who's saying all the things that Brexiteers want to hear but might not even have a majoirty to deliver it. So much can happen between now and 31 Oct I don't believe anyone knows what will happen or are actually "in charge".

I have come to the conclusion that a second referendum is slightly less likely and I am less and less in favour of the idea as we get closer to d-day. It won't make the Brexit Party go away and the country will end up split right down the middle once again. Brexit is making politics interesting but also toxic.

For my money the most likely outcome is some kind of "managed no deal". Once out Farage is marginalised. If half the shit I think will happen in that situation does then the "bods in charge" in the spring will probably be Corbyn. Aaron Banks will see his dream of a de-regulated British Singapore disappear in an onslaught of taxes, regulation and nationalisation and the EU won't be able to do a damn thing about it. Plus, if it kicks off in Northern Ireland there will be an IRA sympathiser in number 10.

Don't say you haven't been warned

He could invite the Ayatollah over from Iran as well if things get too hot for him over there

Lever · Jul 23, 2019

Guinness Boy said:
But who are the bods in charge? Johnson? Farage? Parliament?

FWIW I am a remainer but not a "remoaner". The change in Prime Minister doesn't really change a thing. We have a lame duck deal, a parliament that won't accept no deal and now has very little chance of being prorogued and a PM who's saying all the things that Brexiteers want to hear but might not even have a majoirty to deliver it. So much can happen between now and 31 Oct I don't believe anyone knows what will happen or are actually "in charge".

I have come to the conclusion that a second referendum is slightly less likely and I am less and less in favour of the idea as we get closer to d-day. It won't make the Brexit Party go away and the country will end up split right down the middle once again. Brexit is making politics interesting but also toxic.

For my money the most likely outcome is some kind of "managed no deal". Once out Farage is marginalised. If half the shit I think will happen in that situation does then the "bods in charge" in the spring will probably be Corbyn. Aaron Banks will see his dream of a de-regulated British Singapore disappear in an onslaught of taxes, regulation and nationalisation and the EU won't be able to do a damn thing about it. Plus, if it kicks off in Northern Ireland there will be an IRA sympathiser in number 10.

Don't say you haven't been warned

A dystopian vision.... but not beyond the bounds of possibility; and all this was triggered by extreme internal Tory divisions. Contemptible. The Leave vote was a legitimate, furious protest by many Leave voters; but Brexit has been commandeered by unscrupulous right wing loons - and there seems no way back now.

GrizzlingGammon · Jul 23, 2019

LadySeagull said:
Unbelievable that Politicians like her think they can ignore a referendum, and now she admits she'd do it again. I think she needs to remember that Politicians are meant to serve the people, and seeing as the people want to leave the EU, she needs to accept that.

Must admit this is the most interesting political period I can remember. Normally pretty tedious.

She is serving the people who voted her in. They want to remain. That's how our representative democracy works. It's difficult to understand.

nicko31 · Jul 23, 2019

Gwylan said:
That of course was the original plan before Arlene and her merry men got wind of it. It's a hard plan to sell, it will need a lot of Labour MPs to support it (and I'm not sure that Kate Hoey would be one of them)

Yes it was May's original plan back in Dec 2017. The thing is if BJ calls an election he may not need Labour MP's. A gamble on getting Tories on board that really don't give a sh1t about Ireland and would sacrifice the Union if it meant getting their Little Englander style Brexit

Pretty pink fairy · Jul 23, 2019

LadySeagull said:
Unbelievable that Politicians like her think they can ignore a referendum, and now she admits she'd do it again. I think she needs to remember that Politicians are meant to serve the people, and seeing as the people want to leave the EU, she needs to accept that.

Must admit this is the most interesting political period I can remember. Normally pretty tedious.

Following in the footsteps of the other loons Farron, Clegg and Cable ,Deluded doesn't even cover the Lib Dems another to bob outfit clinging onto Brexit as an excuse to improve their popularity ,Jokers !!
Regards
DR

Pretty pink fairy · Jul 23, 2019

Herr Tubthumper said:
I think it’s quite admirable that she wants to save stupid people from themselves. You’ll thank her one day.

Says a stupid person living in Germany
Regards
DR

Guinness Boy · Jul 23, 2019

LadySeagull said:
Unbelievable that Politicians like her think they can ignore a referendum, and now she admits she'd do it again. I think she needs to remember that Politicians are meant to serve the people, and seeing as the people want to leave the EU, she needs to accept that.

Must admit this is the most interesting political period I can remember. Normally pretty tedious.

GrizzlingGammon said:
She is serving the people who voted her in. They want to remain. That's how our representative democracy works. It's difficult to understand.

IF - and I know it didn't - Remain had won in 2016 do you think Farage would have packed it all in and gone "well that's that then, we're staying and that's all there is to it"?

Would he ****

nicko31 · Jul 23, 2019

Guinness Boy said:
IF - and I know it didn't - Remain had won in 2016 do you think Farage would have packed it all in and gone "well that's that then, we're staying and that's all there is to it"?

Would he ****

Even if Brexit does happen Farage will still hang around like a bad smell

Gwylan · Jul 23, 2019

nicko31 said:
Yes it was May's original plan back in Dec 2017. The thing is if BJ calls an election he may not need Labour MP's. A gamble on getting Tories on board that really don't give a sh1t about Ireland and would sacrifice the Union if it meant getting their Little Englander style Brexit

Well, if he calls an election - and wins - he won't need them but if he tries to make a deal that keeps NI inside the CU, he most definitely will.

What you seem to be suggesting is that Johnson calls an election before he's renegotiated a deal so that either a) he has support for a deal or b) has support for no deal. It's a risky strategy as he won't be able to do it until parliament is recalled and he needs to give at least three weeks notice.It would mean cancelling the Tory conference and having just a couple of weeks to put a deal together.

That's assuming he wins, of course, May thought she'd call an election to firm up her majority and ended up losing it - a GE with the Tories running fourth in the polls would be a hell of a gamble

Thunder Bolt · Jul 23, 2019

LadySeagull said:
Unbelievable that Politicians like her think they can ignore a referendum, and now she admits she'd do it again. I think she needs to remember that Politicians are meant to serve the people, and seeing as the people want to leave the EU, she needs to accept that.

Must admit this is the most interesting political period I can remember. Normally pretty tedious.

Politicians are not delegates. They vote for whatever they think will be best for the country as they have access to a lot more information than the general public.
When they become self serving, then the problems begin.

Grombleton · Jul 23, 2019

Guinness Boy said:
IF - and I know it didn't - Remain had won in 2016 do you think Farage would have packed it all in and gone "well that's that then, we're staying and that's all there is to it"?

Would he ****

Exactly. They just don't want to admit the people they idolise are hypocrites. Sold down the river by them.

Thunder Bolt · Jul 23, 2019

Guinness Boy said:
But who are the bods in charge? Johnson? Farage? Parliament?

FWIW I am a remainer but not a "remoaner". The change in Prime Minister doesn't really change a thing. We have a lame duck deal, a parliament that won't accept no deal and now has very little chance of being prorogued and a PM who's saying all the things that Brexiteers want to hear but might not even have a majoirty to deliver it. So much can happen between now and 31 Oct I don't believe anyone knows what will happen or are actually "in charge".

I have come to the conclusion that a second referendum is slightly less likely and I am less and less in favour of the idea as we get closer to d-day. It won't make the Brexit Party go away and the country will end up split right down the middle once again. Brexit is making politics interesting but also toxic.

For my money the most likely outcome is some kind of "managed no deal". Once out Farage is marginalised. If half the shit I think will happen in that situation does then the "bods in charge" in the spring will probably be Corbyn. Aaron Banks will see his dream of a de-regulated British Singapore disappear in an onslaught of taxes, regulation and nationalisation and the EU won't be able to do a damn thing about it. Plus, if it kicks off in Northern Ireland there will be an IRA sympathiser in number 10.

Don't say you haven't been warned

There is no such thing as a managed no deal.

Questions · Jul 23, 2019

What a day I pick to give up taking drugs.

LadySeagull · Jul 24, 2019

WATFORD zero said:
Out of interest what do you think about the question you were asked here https://www.northstandchat.com/showthread.php?374219-Johnson-or-Hunt&p=8999860&viewfull=1#post8999860 ?

What do you think Johnson is going to do, re-brand Mays plan or go for 'no deal' ?

I answered that half an hour before you posted, and I say he will put through a version that will get voted through, to finally stamp out this remoaner desperate straw-clutching and move forward at last from this deadlock and hand-wringing from people who can't cope with the idea of change.

Question for the remoaners: are you risk averse and anti-change by nature, or just re Brexit?

Grombleton · Jul 24, 2019

LadySeagull said:
Question for the remoaners: are you risk averse and anti-change by nature, or just re Brexit?

Bit of a weird dig, given that Brexiteers still have this idea that Britain is still a major power in the world, a la 1700's. If you want to suggest stubbornness to change, take a look closer to home.

Baldseagull · Jul 24, 2019

LadySeagull said:
I answered that half an hour before you posted, and I say he will put through a version that will get voted through, to finally stamp out this remoaner desperate straw-clutching and move forward at last from this deadlock and hand-wringing from people who can't cope with the idea of change.

Question for the remoaners: are you risk averse and anti-change by nature, or just re Brexit?

Funny, most complaints you leavers have is about how the EU has changed us, supposedly against our will, despite struggling to come up with anything after we concede it was bad for our fishermen. Then after you get leavers to see that we will be worse off economically, have similar levels of immigration, if we have the work available, and have less effective sovereignty as we become lightweight in comparison to the EU, the thing they then come back with is the fear of all the changes that the EU has planned, like accepting Turkey as a member, being forced to take the Euro, an EU army, loss of Veto and all the other bullshit the leave campaign told you was on its way.
I love change, but only changes for the better, not for the worse. I am most keen on staying in the EU and effecting some changes within it, you defeatist leavers just don't believe in Britains ability to influence the EU.

Edit. Re. Risk adverse, not particularly, but it is normal to weigh the risk against potential reward, I see very little in the way of reward, in fact, nothing. I would love it if you had something you could share with us.

Baldseagull · Jul 24, 2019

JC Footy Genius said:
The new Leader of the Bollox to Brexit party confirms she wouldn't accept the result of a second referendum if it was to leave and would try to block it. The undemocratic loon party plumbs new depths ... only accepts a democratic result if they get their way.

Someone really needs to report the Liberal 'Democrats' to the electoral commission about their name ...

I listened to what she said, and she didn't say that, she was asked would she endorse leaving the EU if a second referendum returned a leave result, she said she would still believe it was a bad idea.

endorse

verb
1. declare one's public approval or support of

So JCFG, would you endorse remaining if a second referendum came in for remain?

Lever · Jul 24, 2019

LadySeagull said:
I answered that half an hour before you posted, and I say he will put through a version that will get voted through, to finally stamp out this remoaner desperate straw-clutching and move forward at last from this deadlock and hand-wringing from people who can't cope with the idea of change.

Question for the remoaners: are you risk averse and anti-change by nature, or just re Brexit?

....and another of Johnston's pledges is 'to bring the country together'. The daft, uncompromising, emotive language you use shows that you're not really up for that. I think we can safely say that with your antagonistic attitude the divide will become ever deeper and Britain will surely break up; then you really will achieve your 'little England'!!

nicko31 · Jul 24, 2019

Thunder Bolt said:
There is no such thing as a managed no deal.

Its utter BS, maybe with 5-7 years of planning.

Garry Nelson's teacher · Jul 24, 2019

What with he heat and the thunderstorms I had a terrible night's sleep, riven by disturbing dreams and nightmares. I even woke up thinking that Boris Johnson was our new PM.

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