[Politics] Brexit

pb21 · May 13, 2019

Green Cross Code Man said:
Wishful thinking. You can't possibly know that. Suppose we look at it another way. If 14 percent vote for the liberals, ten percent for the greens, and maybe 4 percent for change, then we can surmise that only 28 percent of voters want to stay in the EU.

True. But only the Brexit party is advocating no deal, everyone else is either advocating a Brexit deal or ideally no Brexit.

If the only party wanting a no deal Brexit only get 34% of the vote, and parties wanting a deal or no Brexit get the remaining 66%, then it's quite fair and reasonable to say that 66% of the people don't want a no deal Brexit.

Harry Wilson's tackle · May 13, 2019

Lever said:
But have you decided what Leave option will suit all the Brexit supporters yet Prancing Ninny? Isn't the 'Nige' Brexit itself a convenient oversimplification?

Corrected for you

Lever · May 13, 2019

The Rivet said:
Nope

Good... now if you can try and use more restrained, less dramatic language I am sure you are capable of making some sensible points. Why not give it a try?

Actually, I have work tomorrow so better crash out. I look forward to hearing from you tomorrow - but please, no 'smack' or 'idiots' .... not very helpful or emotionally intelligent is it?

Harry Wilson's tackle · May 13, 2019

pb21 said:
True. But only the Brexit party is advocating no deal, everyone else is either advocating a Brexit deal or ideally no Brexit.

If the only party wanting a no deal Brexit only get 34% of the vote, and parties wanting a deal or no Brexit get the remaining 66% then it's quite fair and reasonable to say that 66% of the people don't want a no deal Brexit.

Exactly.

Anyway, the Brexit 'party' are standing for EU elections (gravy train) not a UK general election. Carpet baggers.

Probably a good plan to go and vote, one and all. Tactically and carefully.

The Rivet · May 13, 2019

Lever said:
Good... now if you can try and use more restrained, less dramatic language I am sure you can make some sensible points. Why not give it a try?

Are you feeling precious dear? F you. Out, out of this sclerotic cesspit that is the EU. Out of all of its influence. We are better off out of the decaying edifice that is the EU politic! Brighton & Hove is a bubble in the mainstream south east region.

Lever · May 13, 2019

The Rivet said:
Are you feeling precious dear? F you. Out, out of this sclerotic cesspit that is the EU. Out of all of its influence. We are better off out of the decaying edifice that is the EU politic! Brighton & Hove is a bubble in the mainstream south east region.

There you go again... emotional outrage without substance or evidence but full of standard vulgarian insults. You will never be the Brexit poster boy like that.

The Rivet · May 13, 2019

Lever said:
There you go again... emotional outrage without substance or evidence but full of standard vulgarian insults. You will never be the Brexit poster boy like that.

Good night light weight. Love ya! x

A1X · May 13, 2019

It's common to hear Brexiters these days who oppose a further referendum on leaving the EU say that a new referendum must not take place because to do so would "endanger democracy".

I don't think that this arrant, scaremongering nonsense is called out nearly enough. It is absolute bollocks. Fantastical, panic-spreading guff. The UK is not going to turn into North Korea overnight if there is a further EU referendum. A referendum IS democracy. How on earth can democracy be endangered BY democracy? Everybody still gets a say (if the franchise is not so shamefully gerrymandered the way that it was in 2016 - that really was an affront to democracy).

Lever · May 14, 2019

The Rivet said:
Good night light weight. Love ya! x

I hope you have been able to sleep off yesterday's temperamental fit Rivet. Your emotional state seems as confused as your politics - from "F you" to "Love ya" in a matter of minutes.

A bit of quiet reflection might be helpful in sorting out your thoughts and feelings.

Green Cross Code Man · May 14, 2019

pb21 said:
True. But only the Brexit party is advocating no deal, everyone else is either advocating a Brexit deal or ideally no Brexit.

If the only party wanting a no deal Brexit only get 34% of the vote, and parties wanting a deal or no Brexit get the remaining 66%, then it's quite fair and reasonable to say that 66% of the people don't want a no deal Brexit.

That is most probably generally true. But it's worth remembering that while remainers often remind us that Brexiteers didn't know which kind of brexit they voted for, the same logic could still be said about the voters participating in the EU election, particularly those voting tory and Labour as both parties have made a right pig's ear of establishing a coherent position.

Lever · May 14, 2019

A1X said:
It's common to hear Brexiters these days who oppose a further referendum on leaving the EU say that a new referendum must not take place because to do so would "endanger democracy".

I don't think that this arrant, scaremongering nonsense is called out nearly enough. It is absolute bollocks. Fantastical, panic-spreading guff. The UK is not going to turn into North Korea overnight if there is a further EU referendum. A referendum IS democracy. How on earth can democracy be endangered BY democracy? Everybody still gets a say (if the franchise is not so shamefully gerrymandered the way that it was in 2016 - that really was an affront to democracy).

All true - but many of them have bought into the fantasy that the posh boys and snake oil salesmen have been peddling. Those same opinion formers have also managed to convince them with 'they knew what they voted for' and it is 'the will of the people' and those that oppose their agenda are treacherous.

The spinners of these simplistic lies practically own large number of voters as will no doubt be revealed in the European Elections.

Garry Nelson's teacher · May 14, 2019

A1X said:
It's common to hear Brexiters these days who oppose a further referendum on leaving the EU say that a new referendum must not take place because to do so would "endanger democracy".

I don't think that this arrant, scaremongering nonsense is called out nearly enough. It is absolute bollocks. Fantastical, panic-spreading guff. The UK is not going to turn into North Korea overnight if there is a further EU referendum. A referendum IS democracy. How on earth can democracy be endangered BY democracy? Everybody still gets a say (if the franchise is not so shamefully gerrymandered the way that it was in 2016 - that really was an affront to democracy).

Another standard and sneering response is 'OK - what do you want? Make it best out of three?'

Interesting if impressionistic article on recent Brexit party rally. It's getting nasty.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-brexit-party-event-terrifying-glimpse-future

Garry Nelson's teacher · May 14, 2019

The Rivet said:
Are you feeling precious dear? F you. Out, out of this sclerotic cesspit that is the EU. Out of all of its influence. We are better off out of the decaying edifice that is the EU politic! Brighton & Hove is a bubble in the mainstream south east region.

Yes - kind of makes you proud, eh?

Thunder Bolt · May 14, 2019

Lever said:
All true - but many of them have bought into the fantasy that the posh boys and snake oil salesmen have been peddling. Those same opinion formers have also managed to convince them with 'they knew what they voted for' and it is 'the will of the people' and those that oppose their agenda are treacherous.

The spinners of these simplistic lies practically own large number of voters as will no doubt be revealed in the European Elections.

That's the problem with spin. Simple soundbites which appeal like an advert for washing up liquid. The Brexit party are even taunting May with her own soundbites now.

Remain must start publicising the benefits and getting the mainstream media to publish it, otherwise the simplistic lies will win and we all suffer.

WATFORD zero · May 14, 2019

Pretty pink fairy said:
he'll rattle a few cages there's no doubt about that ,LEAVE MEANS LEAVE no point in denying it
regards
DR

You have obviously learnt nothing from this complete clusterf***. However, the last 46 days have shown that particular soundbite to be a complete pile of :shit:

The Clamp · May 14, 2019

No sensible person wants to leave the EU.

Westdene Seagull · May 14, 2019

pb21 said:
True. But only the Brexit party is advocating no deal, everyone else is either advocating a Brexit deal or ideally no Brexit.

If the only party wanting a no deal Brexit only get 34% of the vote, and parties wanting a deal or no Brexit get the remaining 66%, then it's quite fair and reasonable to say that 66% of the people don't want a no deal Brexit.

But if you add all the parties that want or have promised to deliver some sort of Brexit you get over 60% ..... meaning remain should no longer be an option.

Westdene Seagull · May 14, 2019

Lever said:
There you go again... emotional outrage without substance or evidence but full of standard vulgarian insults. You will never be the Brexit poster boy like that.

Before you make yourself so high and mighty you might want to check the posts of your remainer bedfellows ..... thicko, racist, little Englander etc ..... I don't see you attempting to put them down.

Lever · May 14, 2019

Westdene Seagull said:
But if you add all the parties that want or have promised to deliver some sort of Brexit you get over 60% ..... meaning remain should no longer be an option.

'Some sort of Brexit'...... and there you have it! Any sort okay for everyone? How would we know? If Leavers cannot agree amongst themselves why would we not include calling the whole thing off, at least until we've sorted out what we want? Poor logic, and so we are left with emotional soundbites that win over suggestible voters.

Lever · May 14, 2019

Westdene Seagull said:
Before you make yourself so high and mighty you might want to check the posts of your remainer bedfellows ..... thicko, racist, little Englander etc ..... I don't see you attempting to put them down.

Oh so now you are attempting again to seize the moral high ground. Not very well though. This is an emotional subject matter and people deal with it in different ways. Calm logic is required - don't you think? Do you have any decent argument to put forward?

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