[Politics] Brexit

Mellotron · Mar 25, 2019

beorhthelm said:
interesting question for the floor, apart from the Irish situation what is so terrible about the deal? my other half asked why no one likes it and i couldn't answer, ive not paid enough attention. its not something thats very clear what makes it sooo bad.

Hard Brexiteers are worried it could leave the UK in the Customs Union indefinitely, due to the presence of the backstop.

Meanwhile Remainers are concerned it doesn't support jobs, doesn't protect working standards, and will very likely **** up the economy.

So not a hard enough Brexit for the Hard Brexiteers, and it's too hard a Brexit for Remainers. Hence, almost everyone unhappy.

pb21 · Mar 25, 2019

beorhthelm said:
was being mentioned on Friday or Saturday, so neither Johnson or Peston are really on the pulse. the notion is they want something to save face, to justify the turn-around, if they change view on the May deal and leaving is something in her gift. and shes probably relieved to go, with departure this summer already expected anyway.

interesting question for the floor, apart from the Irish situation what is so terrible about the deal? my other half asked why no one likes it and i couldn't answer, ive not paid enough attention. its not something thats very clear what makes it sooo bad.

IMO, given the backstop situation and how toxic that would be for the UK (I understand that it is not ideal for the EU too, but I don’t believe as bad), we will be inclined to accept a future trade deal far worse than we currently have.

Stat Brother · Mar 25, 2019

Mellotron said:
Hard Brexiteers are worried it could leave the UK in the Customs Union indefinitely, due to the presence of the backstop.

Meanwhile Remainers are concerned it doesn't support jobs, doesn't protect working standards, and will very likely **** up the economy.

So not a hard enough Brexit for the Hard Brexiteers, and it's too hard a Brexit for Remainers. Hence, almost everyone unhappy.

Or

Terry May was dealt an impossible hand of cards and she still managed to play the hand as badly as possible.

crodonilson · Mar 25, 2019

pastafarian said:
Yep, mumbling along badly to lyrics on handed out paper.
Full on cringe!

Have you never had a sing song on the train/coach on the way to an important away game? 'Here we go' or the like? Obviously it's a new song that hasn't yet caught on hence the need for lyrics handed out.

Baldseagull · Mar 25, 2019

albion68 said:
There was net immigration of 273 ,000 last recorded ,EU dropped down to 50,000,and you can`t blame people for wanting to come here to earn more money , but it wont take long to reach a million ,your reasons for bringing more people in are a bit weak ,we give billions away in international aid .Are you not one bit concerned about the future with these amounts ,do you want to build new cities ,what about our countryside ?.

What I am saying is that trying to fix one problem can cause another, and that halting freedom of movement is not the fix to overpopulation or immigration as a whole that it might appear to be.
The ratio of people over 65 to people of working age is increasing, it was about 16% of a population of about 60 million in 2000, and about 18% of a population of about 65 million in 2016. Retirement age is being pushed up to ease the ratio of retired to working people, migration of working age people also helps keep the ratio down, and it is highly probable that overall immigration will remain at similar levels unless the economy crashes and there is not the work available.

I am sad that you see you the Foreign aid spending as an unnecessary expense we can cut, it is a UN target we have been signed up to for decades at 0.7% of GDP, and is now in UK law that the government must meet this target, it is also a tenth of UK Government pension payments which are 45% of all welfare spending. As someone concerned about immigration maybe you could take some comfort that this spending is aiding development in countries that tend to have an outflow of people due to the lack of opportunity, helping the sort of people you might otherwise find sitting in tents in Calais trying to get here, to have a life where they were born.

I am concerned for the future, but people who blame immigrants for our problems worry me more than most immigrants. There are about 700,000 babies born a year in the UK currently, and 500,000 people die, population increase is happening pretty much everywhere in the world, Japan a notable exception, which is causing problems for them.

Baldseagull · Mar 25, 2019

pastafarian said:
So in conclusion Westdene Seagull is correct , he has never called 2profs a cvnt, and 2profs has only said westdene seagull "thinks" he is a cvnt but never actually said westdene seagull "called" him a cvnt and a few idiots cant tell the difference between "thinks" and "called" so act like cvnts.
Proper cvnt fest this place

Could be a contender for the Nasty Porn folder?

beorhthelm · Mar 25, 2019

Mellotron said:
Hard Brexiteers are worried it could leave the UK in the Customs Union indefinitely, due to the presence of the backstop.

Meanwhile Remainers are concerned it doesn't support jobs, doesn't protect working standards, and will very likely **** up the economy.

So not a hard enough Brexit for the Hard Brexiteers, and it's too hard a Brexit for Remainers. Hence, almost everyone unhappy.

first point accepted. the second is hypothetical and require an elected government to repeal existing legislation. and why exactly would the deal possibly star up the economy if we effectively remain in customs union?

this is two points of objection, where as there seems many more views in parliament. sounds like has everyone just lost their shit in sense its not what they want, so reject it. i wonder how bad it is in practice and its not even the final, future arrangement with EU.

KZNSeagull · Mar 25, 2019

beorhthelm said:
first point accepted. the second is hypothetical and require an elected government to repeal existing legislation. and why exactly would the deal possibly star up the economy if we effectively remain in customs union?

this is two points of objection, where as there seems many more views in parliament. sounds like has everyone just lost their shit in sense its not what they want, so reject it. i wonder how bad it is in practice and its not even the final, future arrangement with EU.

My rudimentary understanding of this is that the different Brexit options that may or may not be discussed this week in parliament are about the future arrangements and would all require a Withdrawal Agreement, almost certainly the same one on offer now. They seem to be arguing over the political declaration, which is non-binding anyway as EU law says that you cannot negotiate a future arragement until you are no longer a member of the EU.

Weststander · Mar 25, 2019

Baldseagull said:
I am concerned for the future, but people who blame immigrants for our problems worry me more than most immigrants.

This, definitely not the fault of immigrants.

Instead, governments (plural) from 1997 onwards, did very little to cater for the huge increase in population. In terms of housing supply (both private and housing associations), transport capacity, GP's, school places and hospitals.

Blue Valkyrie · Mar 25, 2019

Clarity on 29th March :

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1110110339897745409?s=19

Tom Hark Preston Park · Mar 25, 2019

Reckon an indicative vote on kicking that bellowing buffoon outside parliament squarely in the nuts would unite the country and achieve an overwhelming majority. What a ****

Two Professors · Mar 25, 2019

Tom Hark said:
Reckon an indicative vote on kicking that bellowing buffoon outside parliament squarely in the nuts would unite the country and achieve an overwhelming majority. What a ****

At least it's voice would be more pleasantly pitched.Sounds like somebody who's been riding a chopper,and has a permanent rupture as a result.Mournful-sounding ****.

Lincoln Imp · Mar 25, 2019

Tom Hark said:
Reckon an indicative vote on kicking that bellowing buffoon outside parliament squarely in the nuts would unite the country and achieve an overwhelming majority. What a ****

I must have missed him. Got a video?

Pavilionaire · Mar 25, 2019

I'd be more amenable to supporting Leave if - at this critical stage in the process - the Brexiteers came out en masse as a show of strength for their cause.

A million Remainers march on London and the online poll is a shade under 5 1/2 million signatures, yet the Brexit March barely registers 200 souls and their best online petition 'Leave the EU without a deal in March 2019' has a pathetic 546,000 signatures.

Seems like Leave could do with a 12th Man. As Delia Smith once said" Where are you? Where ARE you? Let's Be 'Aving You! Come On!!"

Tom Hark Preston Park · Mar 25, 2019

Lincoln Imp said:
I must have missed him. Got a video?

Just watch any BBC/ITV/SKY broadcast from their respective balconies across from parliament. Fair play to the collective broadcasters for refraining from chipping in and hiring a third party hitman to give him the hiding he so richly deserves for shouting loudest under the impression that makes his opinion more valid than anybody else's. Total ****

Two Professors · Mar 25, 2019

Pavilionaire said:
I'd be more amenable to supporting Leave if - at this critical stage in the process - the Brexiteers came out en masse as a show of strength for their cause.

A million Remainers march on London and the online poll is a shade under 5 1/2 million signatures, yet the Brexit March barely registers 200 souls and their best online petition 'Leave the EU without a deal in March 2019' has a pathetic 546,000 signatures.

Seems like Leave could do with a 12th Man. As Delia Smith once said" Where are you? Where ARE you? Let's Be 'Aving You! Come On!!"

We got up for the Referendum.Now we are leaving it to the lazy gits that couldn't be bothered to vote.

hans kraay fan club · Mar 25, 2019

Pavilionaire said:
I'd be more amenable to supporting Leave if - at this critical stage in the process - the Brexiteers came out en masse as a show of strength for their cause.

A million Remainers march on London and the online poll is a shade under 5 1/2 million signatures, yet the Brexit March barely registers 200 souls and their best online petition 'Leave the EU without a deal in March 2019' has a pathetic 546,000 signatures.

Seems like Leave could do with a 12th Man. As Delia Smith once said" Where are you? Where ARE you? Let's Be 'Aving You! Come On!!"

I take your point, but personally I'd be no more amenable to supporting it, however many people were on their march, or signing their petitions. If I genuinely believed, that, properly informed, a clear majority were still in favour, then of course I'd ACCEPT it, but I'd never, ever SUPPORT it, as it is simply, demonstrably bad for the country.

A1X · Mar 25, 2019

It would also help if Leavers could actually decide what the hell they want. There is basically an arc stretching from "No Deal" (which frankly can go swivel on it as it's a ludicrous idea) round to "Common Market 2.0". That's quite a spectrum.

Pavilionaire · Mar 25, 2019

hans kraay fan club said:
I take your point, but personally I'd be no more amenable to supporting it, however many people were on their march, or signing their petitions. If I genuinely believed, that, properly informed, a clear majority were still in favour, then of course I'd ACCEPT it, but I'd never, ever SUPPORT it, as it is simply, demonstrably bad for the country.

If I could see that a million Leavers were passionate about Brexit and they had five and half million signatures on a petition calling for May to get the f*ck out of the EU pronto then at least it would be a demonstration that the 2016 Referendum was something other than a protest vote against Cameron / immigration / austerity / neglect.

It just feels like Leavers are awfully quiet.

hans kraay fan club · Mar 25, 2019

Pavilionaire said:
If I could see that a million Leavers were passionate about Brexit and they had five and half million signatures on a petition calling for May to get the f*ck out of the EU pronto then at least it would be a demonstration that the 2016 Referendum was something other than a protest vote against Cameron / immigration / austerity / neglect.

It just feels like Leavers are awfully quiet.

Fair.

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