View Poll Results: If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?

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  • Remain

    585 68.18%
  • Leave

    241 28.09%
  • Wouldn’t vote

    32 3.73%
  1. #89701
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mouldy Boots View Post
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    By telling the EU to give us a fair deal or its NO DEAL.
    Can you please explain what about the current deal you find so objectionable?

    Am I watching Brighton or Barcelona?

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    • #89702
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lever View Post
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      The sovereigntist argument for Brexit is a perfectly legitimate case to make.
      I agree

      Quote Originally Posted by Lever View Post
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      Ironically by regaining our sovereignty in this way,
      At least you have confirmed it is indeed regaining sovereign powers, some of your fellow travellers think no sovereign powers have been ceded to Brussels by insisting there are no sovereign powers to take back control of.

      Quote Originally Posted by Lever View Post
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      It is equally worrying that you cannot concede that the democratic process was so badly distorted by misinformation and lack of information as well as malpractice as to be a mockery of democracy.
      On the contrary,I fully recognise the misinformation and scare tactics from the gov (eg treasury emergency budget) and the shameful use of foreign influence (Obama) that helped scare people into voting remain.

      Quote Originally Posted by Lincoln Imp View Post
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      Yes, you have put this view forcibly many times and your belief that the result of a referendum overrules all other considerations is well known, not least since you reacted to the hypothesis of a referendum about appeasement in the late-1930s by seeming to say that its outcome would have had to have been respected irrespective of the effect on the country in the 1940s. Your position is clear.
      More misrepresenting bullshit from you. I simply said if there had been a referendum on appeasement in 1937, and appeasement had won then that vote should have been respected. Voters in 1937 would not have had a history of the 20th century book in front of them. All you have done is confirm yet again you don’t believe referendum votes should be respected if you do not agree with them.

      Quote Originally Posted by Lincoln Imp View Post
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      I couldn't actually detect any sign of anger on the part of Garry Nelson's Teacher but if I could contribute... the issue as I see it isn't that more Indians will arrive but that in the real world we will not have any options over whether they do - for the simple reason that quotas will be part of trade deals and, in post-Brexit reality, we will have no options but to sign those trade deals. Again, I have no problem with this (in the case of Indians, although not in the case of abused chickens) but the Brexiteer assumption that we can pick and choose without let, hindrance or personal disadvantage implies a 19th century concept of British sovereignty.
      What is most likely, and what happens with many trade deals is that visa regulations are liberalised and the process of obtaining a visa for tier groups that we see a benefit in allowing is simplified. Have zero problem with qualified Indians getting visas under a more liberalised system for study and in areas of work where we identify a shortage, as we currently do. This is what a managed migration system should do. Beats the hell out of letting people, who want to live and work here, cross the border first without permits to enter and then check up on them months later.
      Jazz Festival n. The purchase of two or more Noddy books at one time.
    • #89703
      Ex-Gibseagull Surf's Up's Avatar
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      Interesting piece by Max Hastings on BoJo in The Guarniad...

      "Six years ago, the Cambridge historian Christopher Clark published a study of the outbreak of the first world war, titled The Sleepwalkers. Though Clark is a fine scholar, I was unconvinced by his title, which suggested that the great powers stumbled mindlessly to disaster. On the contrary, the maddest aspect of 1914 was that each belligerent government convinced itself that it was acting rationally.

      It would be fanciful to liken the ascent of Boris Johnson to the outbreak of global war, but similar forces are in play. There is room for debate about whether he is a scoundrel or mere rogue, but not much about his moral bankruptcy, rooted in a contempt for truth. Nonetheless, even before the Conservative national membership cheers him in as our prime minister – denied the option of Nigel Farage, whom some polls suggest they would prefer – Tory MPs have thronged to do just that.

      He would not recognise the truth, whether about his private or political life, if confronted by it in an identity parade
      I have known Johnson since the 1980s, when I edited the Daily Telegraph and he was our flamboyant Brussels correspondent. I have argued for a decade that, while he is a brilliant entertainer who made a popular maître d’ for London as its mayor, he is unfit for national office, because it seems he cares for no interest save his own fame and gratification.

      Tory MPs have launched this country upon an experiment in celebrity government, matching that taking place in Ukraine and the US, and it is unlikely to be derailed by the latest headlines. The Washington columnist George Will observes that Donald Trump does what his political base wants “by breaking all the china”. We can’t predict what a Johnson government will do, because its prospective leader has not got around to thinking about this. But his premiership will almost certainly reveal a contempt for rules, precedent, order and stability.

      A few admirers assert that, in office, Johnson will reveal an accession of wisdom and responsibility that have hitherto eluded him, not least as foreign secretary. This seems unlikely, as the weekend’s stories emphasised. Dignity still matters in public office, and Johnson will never have it. Yet his graver vice is cowardice, reflected in a willingness to tell any audience, whatever he thinks most likely to please, heedless of the inevitability of its contradiction an hour later.

      Like many showy personalities, he is of weak character. I recently suggested to a radio audience that he supposes himself to be Winston Churchill, while in reality being closer to Alan Partridge. Churchill, for all his wit, was a profoundly serious human being. Far from perceiving anything glorious about standing alone in 1940, he knew that all difficult issues must be addressed with allies and partners.

      Churchill’s self-obsession was tempered by a huge compassion for humanity, or at least white humanity, which Johnson confines to himself. He has long been considered a bully, prone to making cheap threats. My old friend Christopher Bland, when chairman of the BBC, once described to me how he received an angry phone call from Johnson, denouncing the corporation’s “gross intrusion upon my personal life” for its coverage of one of his love affairs.

      “We know plenty about your personal life that you would not like to read in the Spectator,” the then editor of the magazine told the BBC’s chairman, while demanding he order the broadcaster to lay off his own dalliances.

      Bland told me he replied: “Boris, think about what you have just said. There is a word for it, and it is not a pretty one.”

      He said Johnson blustered into retreat, but in my own files I have handwritten notes from our possible next prime minister, threatening dire consequences in print if I continued to criticise him.

      Johnson would not recognise truth, whether about his private or political life, if confronted by it in an identity parade. In a commonplace book the other day, I came across an observation made in 1750 by a contemporary savant, Bishop Berkeley: “It is impossible that a man who is false to his friends and neighbours should be true to the public.” Almost the only people who think Johnson a nice guy are those who do not know him.

      There is, of course, a symmetry between himself and Jeremy Corbyn. Corbyn is far more honest, but harbours his own extravagant delusions. He may yet prove to be the only possible Labour leader whom Johnson can defeat in a general election. If the opposition was led by anybody else, the Tories would be deservedly doomed, because we would all vote for it. As it is, the Johnson premiership could survive for three or four years, shambling from one embarrassment and debacle to another, of which Brexit may prove the least.

      For many of us, his elevation will signal Britain’s abandonment of any claim to be a serious country. It can be claimed that few people realised what a poor prime minister Theresa May would prove until they saw her in Downing Street. With Boris, however, what you see now is almost assuredly what we shall get from him as ruler of Britain.

      We can scarcely strip the emperor’s clothes from a man who has built a career, or at least a lurid love life, out of strutting without them. The weekend stories of his domestic affairs are only an aperitif for his future as Britain’s leader. I have a hunch that Johnson will come to regret securing the prize for which he has struggled so long, because the experience of the premiership will lay bare his absolute unfitness for it.

      If the Johnson family had stuck to showbusiness like the Osmonds, Marx Brothers or von Trapp family, the world would be a better place. Yet the Tories, in their terror, have elevated a cavorting charlatan to the steps of Downing Street, and they should expect to pay a full forfeit when voters get the message. If the price of Johnson proves to be Corbyn, blame will rest with the Conservative party, which is about to foist a tasteless joke upon the British people – who will not find it funny for long."
      برايتون حتى أموت
    • #89704
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      Leavers on here getting very desperate now. Three years ago they were convinced we were going to get an amazing deal, we held all the cards etc. They have slowly come to realise that we are in the doo-doo so are now pretending they always wanted no deal. The whole leave debacle has been a face saving exercise. And in doing so they are ruining the country. Financially, socially and reputationally. All because they are too bloody minded to admit they made a huge mistake in being persuaded into an ill thought out, binary leave vote when they had so few facts and even less foresight.
      Love Great Britain
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    • #89705
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      Quote Originally Posted by Mouldy Boots View Post
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      Blimey, Boycott and 17million will be held responsible for world war III because they believe in Britain i have heard it all now.

      Not a cricket fan but he is a legend.

      Watch this and I challenge you not to agree.

      Managed 3 mins and 2 secs of this gammon headed, wife beaters claptrap. Pub bore. Luckily, a dying breed. Racist, woman beating old ****.
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    • #89706
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      Quote Originally Posted by Garry Nelson's teacher View Post
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      Thanks Imp. Of course you are right abut my view on this. It was just pasta playing his little games. If we leave him in his corner he might play nicely.

      However as one grown up to another - and assuming that you are indeed in the epicentre of Lincolnshire - I did have occasion to visit Scunthorpe a couple of weeks ago and my word it did look grim. You do have to wonder what the good people of Scunny (and the like) were hoping from Brexit and (more to the point) whether they've any chance of getting it and having got it, will really want it.(If only we all knew what the 'it' is!)
      Typhoo put the T in BriTain, but who put the C**T in Sc**thorpe?
      Posted by Kosh, 19/7/2016 - 14th - 11th this year, or I'll eat my big Ritchie Blackmore hat.
    • #89707
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      How close are we to actually leaving?
      Can I have it in London buses or compared to the size of Wales please.
    • #89708
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      Quote Originally Posted by Raleigh Chopper View Post
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      How close are we to actually leaving?
      Can I have it in London buses or compared to the size of Wales please.
      If we leave on October the 31st at the rate the leaving process has cost us each week so far it is....£9.6 billion away. Which would buy you about 2,542 London buses.
      Last edited by The Clamp; 25-06-2019 at 00:10.
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    • #89709
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      Quote Originally Posted by Raleigh Chopper View Post
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      How close are we to actually leaving?
      Can I have it in London buses or compared to the size of Wales please.
      A London bus the size of a whale.
    • #89710
      Progressive Patriot clapham_gull's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by The Clamp View Post
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      Managed 3 mins and 2 secs of this gammon headed, wife beaters claptrap. Pub bore. Luckily, a dying breed. Racist, woman beating old ****.
      I managed No Deal will be fine because we fought World War I and II.

      This is the not quite old enough to remember the war generation, who don't really understand it at all.

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