[Politics] Brexit

Raleigh Chopper · Aug 6, 2019

The Clamp said:
1,138 days since the referendum. Still in the EU. I also note that international acts at The Edinburgh Festival are refusing to be paid in sterling, instead requesting U.S Dollars or Euro's. Going well, eh.

I hope that the Brexit voting holiday makers getting totally pissed up and scoffing their Sunday roasts in the Red Lion with their Union Jack shorts on in Benidorm are not complaining too much about the price of lager this year.

Westdene Seagull · Aug 6, 2019

Plooks said:
**** of Nazi ****!

You're such a simpleton that you can't even spell a three letter word ! :facepalm:

Baldseagull · Aug 6, 2019

Westdene Seagull said:
I obviously clicked the link otherwise I couldn't have commented. I got presented with a couple of paragraphs ( which I did read ) and then a message that if I wanted to continue to the rest of the article that I would need to take out a subscription. So sorry to burst your bubble.

Did you try scrolling down?

The Clamp · Aug 6, 2019

Westdene Seagull said:
I obviously clicked the link otherwise I couldn't have commented. I got presented with a couple of paragraphs ( which I did read ) and then a message that if I wanted to continue to the rest of the article that I would need to take out a subscription. So sorry to burst your bubble.

That’s not what it says at all. It’s a subscription offer. Scroll down and you can read the article.

Garry Nelson's teacher · Aug 6, 2019

Well it looks as if the madman driving the Brexshit bus is if anything accelerating. Meanwhile the US seems to be very cool on a UK bespoke trade deal (other than 45 Senators) and the world looks on in amazement as a country once so respected appears to be on a collision course with reality. Virtually every economic indicator is heading in the wrong direction (looking at 'lead' rather than 'lag' indicators), and the US-China trade dispute is taking a turn for the worse making it just about the worse moment to break-away from an established trading zone.

What better time, then, to have Boris Johnson minding the shop?

GrizzlingGammon · Aug 6, 2019

Westdene Seagull said:
You're such a simpleton that you can't even spell a three letter word !

But you can't even scroll down on a web page.

Kinky Gerbil · Aug 6, 2019

The EU are done with us, I cant imagine they really care what we do anymore.

They have new deals to compensate us going and we really are not worth the hassle.

The USA will pounce when we are weak and will give us crumbs, but ho hum - wE gOt OUr iNdePendEce BaCK

Berty23 · Aug 6, 2019

Here is a former American trade secretary explaining how the US will take us for everything as we will be desperate following no deal. When will the masses realise this?

It is like a situation where someone will die without water and someone offers them a litre of water for 1000 pounds. Yes it is exorbitant but if the option is death then you pay. It is incredible that anyone thinks leaving without a deal puts us in a position of strength. We will be ripe for exploiting.

https://twitter.com/bbcr4today/status/1158623084200550400?s=21

Krusty · Aug 6, 2019

Hey hey!

Grombleton · Aug 6, 2019

Krusty said:
Hey hey!

View attachment 113846

Ah, the Torygraph. I guess that train is a stopper service? At least before it heads to the end of the line.

Garry Nelson's teacher · Aug 6, 2019

I certainly wouldn't see myself as particularly well informed on Parliamentary procedure but humbly ask WTF are our MPs doing sitting on a beach somewhere while Boris and his chums count down the clock to a nation-wrecking no deal Brexit?

Thunder Bolt · Aug 6, 2019

Copied and pasted, but whenever leavers talk about respecting democracy, this is the reason, why I am fighting the referendum.

We hear a lot about Democracy on this page, but many seem to have little grasp of what it means.

Definition of democracy. 1a: government by the people especially: the rule of the majority. b: a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections.

This is worth reading as it does ask questions about our democratic process or lack of it. You can decide as you see fit.

In December 2018, lawyers representing the UK in EU Challenge – which is acting on behalf of British ex-pats living in specified EU countries – argued that Article 50 should be voided, given electoral and other irregularities. However, the court dismissed the case and Justice Ouseley said:

“It is difficult to see how the government could proceed if it had to wait for the outcome of an Electoral Commission investigation, keeping everyone – including the EU 27 – on the hook, waiting to see what the UK was going to do, or waiting for the conclusion of other investigations”.

In February 2019, an appeal was heard against that ruling. The same claimants argued it was unreasonable for the prime minister to proceed with Article 50, given what was known about the proven illegalities of the referendum. But the court refused to hear their appeal.

However, according to law lecturer and jurist Rob Palmer, first Treasury counsel Sir James Eadie QC, acting for the prime minister, admitted that May was fully aware of the unlawful aspects of the referendum campaign:

In the @UKEUchallenge it was also made clear that the PM is aware the referendum was unlawful:

'Unlawful' & 'illegal' (when referring to the ref) were brandished around the court by all – including the judges – as a matter of fact.

PM’s counsel said. 'The true position is that the PM is well aware of the notorious facts... well-published facts...of the EC findings, a fact of an appeal, police investigations, ICO, DCMS committees. All properly done...& it is perfectly obvious that the PM has decided to carry on'.

Vote Leave broke the law

In September 2018 the High Court ruled that Vote Leave, the official Leave campaign fronted by Conservative MPs Boris Johnson and Michael Gove, had broken the law in its overspend.

It did this by paying £625,000 to Darren Grimes for his BeLeave campaign, mostly via AggregateIQ, the Canada-based partner of discredited data miners Cambridge Analytica. According to the Electoral Commission, in total BeLeave spent more than £675,000 with Aggregate IQ under a common plan with Vote Leave.

Earlier, in July 2018, the Electoral Commission also ruled that Vote Leave broke electoral law by colluding with Grimes. Consequently, Vote Leave and Grimes were referred to the police. However, it appears the police have stalled that investigation. On who’s instruction is unclear.

Leave.EU broke the law

In February 2019 the Leave.EU campaign, fronted by Nigel Farage, and Eldon Insurance, owned by campaign funder Arron Banks, were fined £60,000 each for breaking direct marketing rules. 300,000 political messages were sent out on behalf of Leave.EU to Eldon’s customers. Hundreds of leaked emails showed Eldon staff working on the Leave campaign.
Banks was referred to the National Crime Agency, which is investigating whether he was the “true source” of £8m he donated to Leave.EU and Better for the Country Limited.

The Financial Conduct Authority is also investigating Banks’s labyrinthine financial affairs but very slowly.

Cover-up

Equally worrisome is the accusation that the Home Office was involved in a cover-up over Banks’s “finances and alleged relationships with foreign states” when May was the home secretary.

The Home Office has refused to confirm or deny whether it blocked an investigation. The Home Office went on to state that to do otherwise “would impede the future formulation of government policy”.

May is ignored legal rulings that ought to have seen the referendum declared null and void.

Her collusion in this merely succeeds in exposing the myth that Britain has a working democracy and, that sitting MPs and even the PM is not prepared to obey the laws that they make for the rest of us.

Grombleton · Aug 6, 2019

Edit: double post.

Notters · Aug 6, 2019

Berty23 said:
Here is a former American trade secretary explaining how the US will take us for everything as we will be desperate following no deal. When will the masses realise this?

It is like a situation where someone will die without water and someone offers them a litre of water for 1000 pounds. Yes it is exorbitant but if the option is death then you pay. It is incredible that anyone thinks leaving without a deal puts us in a position of strength. We will be ripe for exploiting.

https://twitter.com/bbcr4today/status/1158623084200550400?s=21

When will the civil unrest start?

Garry Nelson's teacher · Aug 6, 2019

Notters said:
When will the civil unrest start?

An interesting question to which there is no definitive answer. I guess the easy way t categories potential issues is

1. We delay or revoke - in which case the Brexiteers will kick off.

2. We crash out without a deal - in which case the Remainers kick off.

(Let's assume for the sake of argument and probability that a deal by 31/10 is just not going to happen. If it does then to some extent it pre-empts 1 and 2.)

One common denominator would be the enormous responsibility on politicians not to play to the gallery (or mob). But these scenarios are both surely a major reason to get a deal?

vegster · Aug 6, 2019

theonlymikey said:
We already independently manage health. education, Security, defence, economic policy & welfare.

Considering they are the staples of society, what is it exactly you'd like the UK to make independent decisions about?

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

You have to remember we are forced to buy Milk in Litres and Butter in Grams!!!! It is a burning injustice!

Ernest · Aug 6, 2019

Looks like do or die Brexit will end up with us dying on November 1st , who will blink first

Garry Nelson's teacher · Aug 6, 2019

Just watched Raab (keep up at the back, he's our new Foreign Secretary!) give a press conference in Canada. Why does he always look so shifty? (Answer: because he is so shifty.)

But let's move to people who actually know what they are talking about. Larry Summers, former US Trade Secretary:

“Britain has no leverage, Britain is desperate … it needs an agreement very soon. When you have a desperate partner, that’s when you strike the hardest bargain.”

This shows the total folly of our negotiating position. Not only have we totally under-estimated the strength of the EU's position (they need us more than we need them, the national governments won't toe the EU's line)
but we've also totally over-estimated our own leverage with new trading partners (if they exist). We will be negotiating new trade deals from the invincible position of our knees.

And on a technical point, as Sterling tanks we will be perceived as having an unfair trading advantage which will make a bad situation worse. Just look at what Trump has done to the Chinese because of their alleged currency manipulation.

This is a subset of the hugely inflated Brexit view of our worth (5th largest economy on the planet) and a reckless refusal to acknowledge the realities and complexities of international trade. Please feel free to disagree but maybe pitch the responses a little bit higher than the 'believe in Britain' stuff. The only thing our Brexit fanatics are good at selling is a pup.

theonlymikey · Aug 6, 2019

Pretty pink fairy said:
Did you read the referendum ballot paper , could you remind us what it said ?
Regards
DR

It's funny you should bring up the referendum ballot paper after I posted the the question on here a couple of days back.

Remember?

In case you've forgotten, a customs union fulfilled the ballot. Mays deal fulfilled the ballot. Who voted them down? Leavers.

Fecking hilarious. Don't start harping on about democracy when the only roadblock has been leavers.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Thunder Bolt · Aug 6, 2019

Ernest said:
Looks like do or die Brexit will end up with us dying on November 1st , who will blink first

I read elsewhere today that Johnson is supposedly consulting an election expert to call a general election, but on the 31st Oct, so we would go out of the EU by default, without any MPs to oppose it.

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