View Poll Results: If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?

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  • Remain

    602 68.25%
  • Leave

    248 28.12%
  • Wouldn’t vote

    32 3.63%
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  1. #121591

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lever View Post
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    Now he will have to refer to Hannan and Fox to get the latest propaganda time schedule!

    He cannot answer that himself!
    or, indeed, anything else

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    • #121592
      Im The Scatman
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lever View Post
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      Fair enough, you have answered those who would lay the blame mainly on Brexit, cited other issues as more significant and are suspending judgement on any conclusions about whether Brexit is a factor.

      I am following, but would really like you to explain what your views are based on. Sources?

      It's important because others are leaping on your 'moderate' arguments and claiming them as support for their own beliefs
      Drivers themselves who have been saying what the issues have been for years, unions backing it up as well.
    • #121593
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      Quote Originally Posted by Kinky Gerbils View Post
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      Drivers themselves who have been saying what the issues have been for years, unions backing it up as well.

      Okay, I certainly wouldn't disagree with your analysis (and that of the drivers and unions), because they/you are better placed to know than I am.

      Do you think Rod McKenzie, policy director of the Road Haulage Association, is just wrong then?

      https://inews.co.uk/news/hgv-driver-...crisis-1216190

      Here's an extract...

      Paul Mummery, a spokesperson for the RHA, agreed that Brexit was a large contributor to the lorry driver shortage.

      “We’ve lost 20,000 drivers who have returned to the EU, so Brexit is indeed a factor in the driver shortage getting so much worse this year,” he said.

      “We’re at a critical point ahead of the busiest time of the year; hauliers must be allowed to recruit overseas drivers on short term visas to plug gaps whilst we recruit and train more UK drivers in the longer term.”

      Haulage bosses also questioned the Transport Secretary’s claims that ramping up driver testing will help counteract the current shortage.
      Last edited by Lever; 25-09-2021 at 15:49.
    • #121594

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      my uplands are still sunny so take that wokeys as i ride a trycycle

      Regards

      DF
    • #121595
      Members sparkie's Avatar
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      We've got to the Mad Max phase of Brexit sooner than predicted it seems.

    • #121596
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lever View Post
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      Okay, I certainly wouldn't disagree with your analysis (and that of the drivers and unions), because they/you are better placed to know than I am.

      Do you think Rod McKenzie, policy director of the Road Haulage Association, is just wrong then?

      https://inews.co.uk/news/hgv-driver-...crisis-1216190

      Here's an extract...

      Paul Mummery, a spokesperson for the RHA, agreed that Brexit was a large contributor to the lorry driver shortage.

      “We’ve lost 20,000 drivers who have returned to the EU, so Brexit is indeed a factor in the driver shortage getting so much worse this year,” he said.

      “We’re at a critical point ahead of the busiest time of the year; hauliers must be allowed to recruit overseas drivers on short term visas to plug gaps whilst we recruit and train more UK drivers in the longer term.”

      Haulage bosses also questioned the Transport Secretary’s claims that ramping up driver testing will help counteract the current shortage.
      He didn’t say 20k drivers going back to the EU because of Brexit, does he have a break down of who has gone back for what reasons? I’m not sure you can say they have gone back just because of Brexit - that would be Interesting as if they are going back because of Brexit they are not going back to be drivers as the EU is massively short.

      I found a survey they had ran and the wording is interesting “perceived reason for shortage”

      I heard the haulage boss earlier and he said that it’s too late for this shortage now due to the time it takes, this should have been in place weeks ago (or not panic lockdown key parts of the country with no back up) to try and fix the issue - which is not helped by them now going on strike.

      McKenzie also said they more drivers short via lack of tests and shortage than anything Brexit has created
    • #121597
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      Quote Originally Posted by Kinky Gerbils View Post
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      He didn’t say 20k drivers going back to the EU because of Brexit, does he have a break down of who has gone back for what reasons? I’m not sure you can say they have gone back just because of Brexit - that would be Interesting as if they are going back because of Brexit they are not going back to be drivers as the EU is massively short.

      I found a survey they had ran and the wording is interesting “perceived reason for shortage”

      I heard the haulage boss earlier and he said that it’s too late for this shortage now due to the time it takes, this should have been in place weeks ago (or not panic lockdown key parts of the country with no back up) to try and fix the issue - which is not helped by them now going on strike.

      McKenzie also said they more drivers short via lack of tests and shortage than anything Brexit has created
      Sorry... see below for response....
      Last edited by Lever; 25-09-2021 at 19:38.
    • #121598
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      Quote Originally Posted by Kinky Gerbils View Post
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      He didn’t say 20k drivers going back to the EU because of Brexit, does he have a break down of who has gone back for what reasons? I’m not sure you can say they have gone back just because of Brexit - that would be Interesting as if they are going back because of Brexit they are not going back to be drivers as the EU is massively short.

      I found a survey they had ran and the wording is interesting “perceived reason for shortage”

      I heard the haulage boss earlier and he said that it’s too late for this shortage now due to the time it takes, this should have been in place weeks ago (or not panic lockdown key parts of the country with no back up) to try and fix the issue - which is not helped by them now going on strike.

      McKenzie also said they more drivers short via lack of tests and shortage than anything Brexit has created
      I think that's generally right; this is what I have from the National Driving Centre....

      https://www.nationaldrivingcentre.co...iver-shortage/


      .... back in 2020 when Covid-19 first presented itself as a growing worldwide problem, a lot of EU drivers within the industry went back home to their respective countries to wait things out and be with their families. Because of the limited movement, and for large periods of total lockdown, they couldn’t get back into the UK. Many still can’t. In 2020-2021 there is estimated to be 15,000 less EU nationals working in the UK. Leading us to the other catalyst for the lorry driver shortage that links to Covid-19 – Brexit.

      When the UK officially left the EU on January 31st 2020 this compounded the issue of getting these skilled workers in from the continent. Before when we were part of the single market and people and produce could cross borders hassle free, none of this was a problem. But Brexit and Coronavirus working together has caused chaos with the UK not receiving the help in the haulage and distribution industry it has always relied so heavily upon from the EU.
    • #121599
      Members £1.99's Avatar
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      Found this very Interesting.
    • #121600

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      Quote Originally Posted by Lever View Post
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      I think that's generally right; this is what I have from the National Driving Centre....

      https://www.nationaldrivingcentre.co...iver-shortage/


      .... back in 2020 when Covid-19 first presented itself as a growing worldwide problem, a lot of EU drivers within the industry went back home to their respective countries to wait things out and be with their families. Because of the limited movement, and for large periods of total lockdown, they couldn’t get back into the UK. Many still can’t. In 2020-2021 there is estimated to be 15,000 less EU nationals working in the UK. Leading us to the other catalyst for the lorry driver shortage that links to Covid-19 – Brexit.

      When the UK officially left the EU on January 31st 2020 this compounded the issue of getting these skilled workers in from the continent. Before when we were part of the single market and people and produce could cross borders hassle free, none of this was a problem. But Brexit and Coronavirus working together has caused chaos with the UK not receiving the help in the haulage and distribution industry it has always relied so heavily upon from the EU.
      All any Brexiter needs to do is say that it doesn't matter because any negative is outweighed by ______________________________ (insert benefit), then say BAZINGA !
      Brexit = Nationalism

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