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[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?

  • Total voters
    1,081


ManOfSussex

ManOfSussex

We wunt be druv
Apr 11, 2016
14,745
Rape of Hastings, Sussex
JC Footy Genius said:
Mmmmm ...



.... looks like you are saying that the entire near 3 million non-voting underclass (many who probably drink at their local spoons) only decided to vote for Brexit because of racism/gullibility/stupidity.
Click to expand...

No - you're trying to spin things, clutch at straws again and getting confused again. 3 million non-voters, knuckle draggers and Wetherspoon's drinkers are not all the same people, as has already been kindly pointed out to you.
 




JC Footy Genius

JC Footy Genius

Bringer of TRUTH
Jun 9, 2015
10,568
Baldseagull said:
Anyone who ignores electoral irregularities, if they like the result, is an undemocratic loon. The Labour party criticisms over antisemitism are largely related to defining antisemitism, which seems to have expanded to include criticism of Israel, or any suggestion that Zionism is not justified.
Click to expand...

Anyone who claims election irregularities had any, let alone a decisive impact on the result without a shred of evidence is just looking for an excuse to undermine a result they don't like .. see undemocratic loons. Yeah, it's mainly about definitions ....

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/03/labours-pockets-of-anti-semitism-the-evidence/

:rolleyes:
 


ManOfSussex

ManOfSussex

We wunt be druv
Apr 11, 2016
14,745
Rape of Hastings, Sussex
Garry Nelson's teacher said:
As a Remainer who has banged on for a long time that the future trade deals issue is the most unconvincing and flimsy part of the Leave case, I guess that the mood music coming from Trump with respect to the 'great guy' Johnson and the trade possibilities that await between our two countries should give grounds for optimism. Indeed, Trump has already started to speculate on the magnitude of increased trade volumes were a free trade deal signed (3,4 or even 5 times current levels).

I just wonder if the course of their chats Johnson has yet pointed out to the President that trade flows both ways? For some reason, I'm tending to frame this as the wolf negotiating a menu deal arrangement the sheep.
Click to expand...

A lengthy diplomatic piece in The Times yesterday. The long held assumption that we'd last 3 weeks in a no deal is no longer the case, and a lengthy 'Brexit Cold War' is now seen as a possibility. On Trump in all of this it says:

Diplomats fear that President Trump would be unable to resist wading in on Britain’s side against his European economic rivals, worsening a global trade war that could tip into a world recession.
Click to expand...

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/eu-fears-no-deal-will-lock-sides-in-a-brexit-cold-war-2s3qqghzf
 


WATFORD zero

WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 10, 2003
25,809


ManOfSussex

ManOfSussex

We wunt be druv
Apr 11, 2016
14,745
Rape of Hastings, Sussex
WATFORD zero said:
Well Boris is certainly doing a good job of uniting the Brexiteers

Farage yesterday “If Boris [Johnson] does Brexit that is great, but every sense inside me says he will fail,” he said.

So he is now getting together with a group of Trump supporters to push for Brexit when Boris fails.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/nigel-farage-and-us-allies-raise-brexit-funds/ar-AAET0kQ?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=mailsignout (without Paywall)

:facepalm:
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Perhaps Farage could also put on his Rupert The Bear outfit and take a tin round some bars in Boston and Chicago and rattle it asking for donations for the oppressed children of England?
 




L

Lincoln Imp

Well-known member
Feb 2, 2009
5,964
Westdene Seagull said:
I'm not entirely sure what my 'closeness' to the Lib Dems at that time has to do with why I should hate the Lib Dems attempt to destroy the Albion but for what it's worth I had a number of email conversations with LDC councillors and Baker.
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Fine, you're entitled to your opinion of course but please don't imply that people who think that their considerations about the future of the country should be overridden by the actions of a cabal of unpleasant local politicians over 20 years ago are not real Albion fans.
 


L

Lincoln Imp

Well-known member
Feb 2, 2009
5,964
JC Footy Genius said:
Anyone who ignores democratic votes they don't like and insists it take at least three votes to leave the EU is obviously an undemocratic loon and anyone voting to put a party that has a significant antisemitism problem it seems unable to resolve in power would indeed probably be seen as facilitating the spread of antisemitism. It's unfortunate that you tick both boxes, no idea if there are 20 million like you though .... hope not.
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Just to help with the figures (and using one of your own preferred methods of measuring such things), YouGov tell us that 56 per cent of the voting public intend to define themselves as what you call "undemocratic loons" and/or "supporter/facilitators" of anti-semitism at the next election. That's over 25 million people. Even if we assume that only 75 per cent of those eligible actually vote that still gives us about 19 million people.

The figures will change of course but you're going to have to shout louder. Your endlessly repetitive little insults now have to reach a majority of the public.
 


Baldseagull

Baldseagull

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2012
10,946
Crawley
JC Footy Genius said:
Anyone who claims election irregularities had any, let alone a decisive impact on the result without a shred of evidence is just looking for an excuse to undermine a result they don't like .. see undemocratic loons. Yeah, it's mainly about definitions ....

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/03/labours-pockets-of-anti-semitism-the-evidence/

:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

You are in denial mate.

If only the Vote Leave campaign had known how useless spending money on adverts, colluding with other campaign groups, illegally gathering data on Facebook users to target them with tailored misleading statements and lies were, they could have saved all that cash and spent it on the NHS instead.

The number of times an ad is put in front of people has a measurable effect, the advertising industry studies this and measures results, it's a big industry worth £22 Billion a year in the UK

The psychology of the bus lie is genius, by saying it is £350 million a week we give to the EU and we could spend it on the NHS, it immediately gets attacked for the blatant lie of the figure, meanwhile the part that suggests we would have extra funds for the NHS goes relatively unchallenged, so even if you realise the figure is a blatant lie, many will still have been left with the impression that we would have significant extra funds for public spending, which of course is bullshit. Repeat it enough times it almost becomes fact, for some people
 




G

Garry Nelson's teacher

Well-known member
May 11, 2015
5,257
Bloody Worthing!
Baldseagull said:
You are in denial mate.

If only the Vote Leave campaign had known how useless spending money on adverts, colluding with other campaign groups, illegally gathering data on Facebook users to target them with tailored misleading statements and lies were, they could have saved all that cash and spent it on the NHS instead.

The number of times an ad is put in front of people has a measurable effect, the advertising industry studies this and measures results, it's a big industry worth £22 Billion a year in the UK

The psychology of the bus lie is genius, by saying it is £350 million a week we give to the EU and we could spend it on the NHS, it immediately gets attacked for the blatant lie of the figure, meanwhile the part that suggests we would have extra funds for the NHS goes relatively unchallenged, so even if you realise the figure is a blatant lie, many will still have been left with the impression that we would have significant extra funds for public spending, which of course is bullshit. Repeat it enough times it almost becomes fact, for some people
Click to expand...


Rubbish. "I don't drink Guinness because of the adverts. I drink it because its good for me.." Never has an industry (advertising) spent so much time denying publicly that it influences perceptions but privately making huge amounts of cash by doing so. Dominic ('take back control') Cummings is back where he belongs - at the very centre of government, unpacking his box of (questionable if not dirty) tricks.
 


JC Footy Genius

JC Footy Genius

Bringer of TRUTH
Jun 9, 2015
10,568
Baldseagull said:
You are in denial mate.

If only the Vote Leave campaign had known how useless spending money on adverts, colluding with other campaign groups, illegally gathering data on Facebook users to target them with tailored misleading statements and lies were, they could have saved all that cash and spent it on the NHS instead.

The number of times an ad is put in front of people has a measurable effect, the advertising industry studies this and measures results, it's a big industry worth £22 Billion a year in the UK

The psychology of the bus lie is genius, by saying it is £350 million a week we give to the EU and we could spend it on the NHS, it immediately gets attacked for the blatant lie of the figure, meanwhile the part that suggests we would have extra funds for the NHS goes relatively unchallenged, so even if you realise the figure is a blatant lie, many will still have been left with the impression that we would have significant extra funds for public spending, which of course is bullshit. Repeat it enough times it almost becomes fact, for some people
Click to expand...

Yeah having more money and advertising always works which is why the Remain campaign which had a huge spend advantage, plus the government machine and many other advantages walked the 2016 referendum.

https://order-order.com/2018/03/26/...xactly-spending-tactics-vote-leave-far-worse/
 


Baldseagull

Baldseagull

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2012
10,946
Crawley
JC Footy Genius said:
Yeah having more money and advertising always works which is why the Remain campaign which had a huge spend advantage, plus the government machine and many other advantages walked the 2016 referendum.

https://order-order.com/2018/03/26/...xactly-spending-tactics-vote-leave-far-worse/
Click to expand...

Honestly fella, if you choose to visit and read the pages of the Guido Fawkes site and their spin, you are asking to be manipulated. The £9 million spent on sending the referendum leaflet out, stating the Governments position and its reasoning months before the referendum, is not in the same category.
 






JC Footy Genius

JC Footy Genius

Bringer of TRUTH
Jun 9, 2015
10,568
Lincoln Imp said:
Just to help with the figures (and using one of your own preferred methods of measuring such things), YouGov tell us that 56 per cent of the voting public intend to define themselves as what you call "undemocratic loons" and/or "supporter/facilitators" of anti-semitism at the next election. That's over 25 million people. Even if we assume that only 75 per cent of those eligible actually vote that still gives us about 19 million people.

The figures will change of course but you're going to have to shout louder. Your endlessly repetitive little insults now have to reach a majority of the public.
Click to expand...

Disappointing if true, but amusing to see a Lib Dem member getting excited about a supposed majority of the public in an opinion poll when they/you continually ignore the wishes of the majority in democratic votes.
 


L

Lincoln Imp

Well-known member
Feb 2, 2009
5,964
JC Footy Genius said:
Disappointing if true, but amusing to see a Lib Dem member getting excited about a supposed majority of the public in an opinion poll when they/you continually ignore the wishes of the majority in democratic votes.
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No excitement here I'm afraid but amusing to see a rather lofty Brexiteer dismissing a majority of the people as being undemocratic loons and supporters of anti-semitism while continually ignoring the fact that a narrow majority of the public was sufficiently misled in a referendum some years that they actually voted for something that couldn't possibly exist.

Still, I'm sure your heroes will come up with some version or other of Brexit that you can be so certain the public voted for all those months and years ago that you definitely won't need to ask them.
 




D

dangull

Well-known member
Feb 24, 2013
5,110
Garry Nelson's teacher said:
As a Remainer who has banged on for a long time that the future trade deals issue is the most unconvincing and flimsy part of the Leave case, I guess that the mood music coming from Trump with respect to the 'great guy' Johnson and the trade possibilities that await between our two countries should give grounds for optimism. Indeed, Trump has already started to speculate on the magnitude of increased trade volumes were a free trade deal signed (3,4 or even 5 times current levels).

I just wonder if the course of their chats Johnson has yet pointed out to the President that trade flows both ways? For some reason, I'm tending to frame this as the wolf negotiating a menu deal arrangement the sheep.
Click to expand...

No. I think he was genuine in wanting a trade agreement that's beneficial for both countries. He is half British by birth and firmly believes the UK is right in deciding to leave the EU and deciding its own destiny, like may other countries throughout the world.
 


G

Garry Nelson's teacher

Well-known member
May 11, 2015
5,257
Bloody Worthing!
dangull said:
No. I think he was genuine in wanting a trade agreement that's beneficial for both countries. He is half British by birth and firmly believes the UK is right in deciding to leave the EU and deciding its own destiny, like may other countries throughout the world.
Click to expand...

Maybe. Let's wait to see the small print. I think the average trade deal can take up to about 10 years to negotiate and roll out, so we'll have plenty of time to enjoy ourselves between the loss of our EU trade deals (and the multitude of countries that we enjoy deals with because of our membership of the EU) and the implementation of anything we agree with Trump or his successors.
And he does show some reflexive protectionist impulses.
 




*Gullsworth*

*Gullsworth*

My Hair is like his hair
Jan 20, 2006
9,351
West...West.......WEST SUSSEX








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