[Politics] Brexit

Westdene Seagull · Apr 11, 2019

ManOfSussex said:
Stephen Lloyd did say prior to the general election he would respect the referendum result and not oppose Brexit or vote for a further referendum if reelected in 2017 though.

He's still a Lib Dem at heart though

WATFORD zero · Apr 11, 2019

Triggaaar said:
I doubt remainers thought the EU wanted a No Deal, it's more that they said it didn't matter to the EU if there was No Deal. Before the end of March there was talk that the EU wouldn't grant an extension, and I said if the alternative was a No Deal they'd be daft not to grant an extension. I was then criticised on here for thinking a No Deal would be a problem for the EU.

Thanks for the clarification :thumbsup:

(There was also the alternative of pulling Article50 if the EU hadn't granted an extension.)

Eeyore · Apr 11, 2019

Guinness Boy said:
By legal default, having EU elections in May....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I thinks that what they call a ROFL moment for me in modern speak.

Garry Nelson's teacher · Apr 11, 2019

pb21 said:
Agree. In addition the 2017 Labour manifesto states:

What Labour have been trying to do for the past two years, and our doing at the moment, is precisely what they said they would do, and presumably why their constituents voted for them in the first place.

One of the big problems with Labour's approach was that their initial 'tests' of Brexit were undeliverable and carried little credibility. I suspect that Starmer was quite relieved when these withered on the vine.

Thunder Bolt · Apr 11, 2019

Green Cross Code Man said:
When history is written about this, if our species survive, a couple of hundred years from now, the EU will be regarded as an empire. Many people in the EU have advocated making Brexit difficult for Britain as a deterrent to other countries which may also be tempted to follow the same route. This makes sense in the short term as ostensibly it keeps things together, but long-term, it will result in a negative effect.

I've thought of another example of how the EU cannot be thought of in terms of an empire. What empire would allow a country to split into two, such as the case of the Czech Republic and Slovakia?
These countries were forced together by the USSR, which was an 'empire'. They know what it is like to not have freedom, as does Merkel herself who grew up in Soviet controlled East Germany.

Bold Seagull · Apr 11, 2019

rippleman said:
Six out of ten Labour MPs represent constituencies where the electorate voted to Leave.

Are those six out of ten Labour MPs representing their constituents by voting in favour of a deal to Leave? No. They are doing all they can to have a "Peoples" vote or revoke Art 50. They are putting their personal wishes and preferences above those of the constituents they represent. Those MPs deserve to be deselected.

And I'm now beginning to think that the Arch ReMAYner has been doing all she can from the outset to scupper Brexit.

No mention of the 75 Tories who didn't vote for their own Party's deal. :shrug:

Baldseagull · Apr 11, 2019

Mental Lental said:
These are admirable sentiments and for what it's worth, I totally agree. However, the problem is that no matter what your opinion is on who will eventually move in to no 10 in the event of winning a GE, you should always consider how your localised vote affects the outcome. To clarify, I've really gone off Corbyn and would LIKE to vote TIG, but that plays right into the Tories hands as the constituency where I'm still registered is East Worthing, where that evil snide Loughton currently resides. Given that my #1 priority in a GE would be to oust that fat prick out of his comfy Tory seat (never gonna happen but I can dream), I have to vote for the person who I think is most likely to challenge him for the seat. Which will probably be the Labour candidate.

I guess my point is that it matters not a jot what you think of the leader or the party as a whole. You have to vote based on who's likely to win the seat because the seat is all that matters. So if you're in a constituency which is a Tory stronghold and you want to see a change of seat, you have to vote for Labour if they are the main challengers.

So despite the fact that I really don't like him at all, I will still vote Labour.

Having had the statistic that 85% of people voted for a party that had honouring the leave vote in their manifesto, as a reason to dismiss out of hand the largest ever petition to the UK Parliament, I will no longer tactically vote, and as you say, very often that tactical vote does not do the trick anyway.

Baldseagull · Apr 11, 2019

colonies man said:
Leavers and remainders would have to be Blind Freddy not to see that Germany has now taken control of the Brexit debacle.A sad day as our Parliament flounders in its ineptitude.

France seemed to be pushing their agenda quite successfully last night, Merkel wanted the extension to run till March next Year

Eeyore · Apr 11, 2019

Pretty pink fairy said:
two of the most Devious people you could ever meet, boo hoo, boo hoo we can't come to terms with the referendum result, also says a lot about you to
regards
DR

You met them then ?

Green Cross Code Man · Apr 11, 2019

Thunder Bolt said:
I've thought of another example of how the EU cannot be thought of in terms of an empire. What empire would allow a country to split into two, such as the case of the Czech Republic and Slovakia?
These countries were forced together by the USSR, which was an 'empire'. They know what it is like to not have freedom, as does Merkel herself who grew up in Soviet controlled East Germany.

The Czech republic and Slovakia were not a unified country before the Russians got to them. The EU simply let that unnatural arrangement die. I haven't called the EU an evil empire as some do!

drew · Apr 11, 2019

Lincoln Imp said:
Parliament has been inept but it faces an intractable problem. It has narrowly been given a remit to facilitate either a very soft Brexit or an extremely hard one. They're chalk and cheese and inevitably there are profound differences of opinion about what is in the national interest. This isn't helped by the fact that the public apparently now feels that neither is.

Neo dictatorships come to decisions more easily of course, and you can thank Gina Miller for us not having one of those.

I've amended it for you. Imagine the shit we would be in if the Tories were led by Boris and he could do pretty much what he wanted without any backing of parliament!

Green Cross Code Man · Apr 11, 2019

drew said:
I've amended it for you. Imagine the shit we would be in if the Tories were led by Boris and he could do pretty much what he wanted without any backing of parliament!

I will be interesting if Brexiteers get their wish and replace May sooner rather than later. I imagine it would lead to bigger problems in parliament and also with our dealings with the EU.

Triggaaar · Apr 11, 2019

Pretty pink fairy said:
Really , i voted to leave the EU as stated on the ballot paper, leave means leave, no deal , no half way in half way out, bye bye EU, i wasn't the only one,
regards
DR

Mellotron said:
Nope - as politely as I can put this: you are factually wrong.

No Deal Brexit wasn’t an option, as confirmed by the Leave campaign before the vote. You didn’t vote for No Deal as it wasn’t an option.

He's not factually wrong, he's right. He voted to leave, that's it. As has been covered many times in this thread, leave didn't mean 'whatever was said by the Leave campaign', because the leave campaign were not, and never would become, the government in charge. They were just politicians campaigning for the decision they wanted, but they weren't, and are not, the government.

ManOfSussex said:
The bit where they said: 'We will negotiate the terms of a new deal before we start any legal process to leave.'

Well that was never going to happen, because the EU said they wouldn't negotiate any terms until we'd started the legal process to leave.

Thunder Bolt · Apr 11, 2019

Green Cross Code Man said:
The Czech republic and Slovakia were not a unified country before the Russians got to them. The EU simply let that unnatural arrangement die. I haven't called the EU an evil empire as some do!

No, you haven't, but you are still calling it an empire. Yes, you're right, the Soviets did force them together whilst splitting Germany in half, and trying to starve Berliners.

ManOfSussex · Apr 11, 2019

Triggaaar said:
Well that was never going to happen, because the EU said they wouldn't negotiate any terms until we'd started the legal process to leave.

If The EU said that prior to the referendum, take it up with Dominic Cummings for saying it then. Thanks.

nicko31 · Apr 11, 2019

drew said:
I've amended it for you. Imagine the shit we would be in if the Tories were led by Boris and he could do pretty much what he wanted without any backing of parliament!

We owe a lot to Gina Miller, she will have her place in history

She said at the time her victory was the greatest of all, protecting us all from authoritarian leaders who thought they could do what they liked.

In return she received death threats goaded by sections of the right wing press.

Green Cross Code Man · Apr 11, 2019

Thunder Bolt said:
No, you haven't, but you are still calling it an empire. Yes, you're right, the Soviets did force them together whilst splitting Germany in half, and trying to starve Berliners.

I think we always see it differently so will use terms that are comfortable with our viewpoint. Not sure I understand your point about the Russians though?

Triggaaar · Apr 11, 2019

drew said:
Imagine the shit we would be in if the Tories were led by Boris and he could do pretty much what he wanted without any backing of parliament!

Ernest · Apr 11, 2019

Typical TINGE hypocrites

[tweet]1116279077932023808[/tweet]

Triggaaar · Apr 11, 2019

ManOfSussex said:
If The EU said that prior to the referendum, take it up with Dominic Cummings for saying it then. Thanks.

Dominic Cummings wasn't our Prime Minister, so him saying we'd negotiate a deal before leaving doesn't enshrine it in law does it.

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