[Politics] Brexit

pastafarian said:

If my referendum on how to leave is a nice idea lets have it. How would you remainers vote?

A/ leave accepting the withdrawal agreement
or
B/ leave with no deal

Every single version of being not in the EU is better than being in it.
No Parliament can pass laws that future Parliaments cannot change.........always scope for being more out than in.

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A1X said:

Such a referendum question wouldn't be permitted because "No Deal" is not something which could get through the electoral commission, as it would involve reneging on international treaties ratified by the UK Parliament and by other legislatures (notably the Irish and US ones). The only version of Leave which would be deemed palatable is May's deal, meaning that in order for a contrast the only other option which could be permitted is Remain.

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pastafarian said:

If there is no withdrawal agreement in place the treaties cease to apply on march 30, we have therefore left with no withdrawal deal in place.
Stop believing idiots on twitter. A deal or no deal referendum would still be legally non binding, it would not force other legislation to be renaged on. Parliament is sovereign, if Parliament acted on its result, they would legislate for it and repeal where necessary.

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Baldseagull said:

Parliament has rejected Mays deal, with the biggest Government defeat in history, and is dead against No Deal, because they are both very bad for Britain, and you want those as the only options in a referendum?
I think I will stick with Parliament thanks, they might well **** us up, but not quite so deliberately as you would have them allow us to.

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A1X said:

[TWEET]1093078886076870656[/TWEET]

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The "core spending power" of councils will rise by £1.3bn or 2.8% to £46.4bn - which includes money raised if councils increase their tax by the maximum 3% allowed and collect strong amounts from rents and business rates.

However, the central grant they get from government will drop by around £1bn on the current financial year.

BBC social affairs correspondent Michael Buchanan said council budgets would shrink by almost 6%, meaning more services would have to be cut.

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The independent Institute for Fiscal Studies calculates that poorer council areas will lose more money that richer authorities.

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A1X said:

I didn't say we couldn't leave with No Deal, I was pointing out that in your referendum scenario "No Deal" could never be on a ballot paper. The UK Government cannot put forward to the electorate through referendum anything which involves the UK reneging on international treaties (in this case the GFA). Those are the rules of the game.

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pastafarian said:

Yes those are the two options i want..........the voters delivered a result to Leave. If parliament fails in its job to deliver the result and cant decide if we should leave with a deal or no deal, then let the people decide it for them and parliament can play no part except to legislate for the decision they were given.............leave with a deal or leave with no deal........what would you vote for?

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pastafarian said:

Stop believing twitter, parliament is soverieign, if it wants a no deal option on a ballot it can.............it already did..............Leave the EU on the original ballot was according to article 50 which clearly states when you decide to leave, if no agreement is reached the traties cease to apply and you have left with no deal.

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Baldseagull said:

Ok, I would vote for the deal. Least damaging option, and over the course of negotiations we get the chance to elect a government that could switch us closer to a Norway type arrangement.
Will you vote in my Fantasy Referendum?

A. Mays plan C Deal. (will look almost exactly like plans A and B)

B. Remain.

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pastafarian said:

Stop believing twitter, parliament is soverieign, if it wants a no deal option on a ballot it can.............it already did..............Leave the EU on the original ballot was according to article 50 which clearly states when you decide to leave, if no agreement is reached the traties cease to apply and you have left with no deal.

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pastafarian said:

more direct democracy suits me fine

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pastafarian said:

And after we have left if future governments want to take us closer to the EU after getting public support via a referendum no one will argue against democracy....not even leavers..........a democratic vote to rejoin after we have left must be respected.......its a shame remoaners dont understand this as they try to scupper the leave vote before it is finalised
But yes, i agree. Your referendum is a fantasy. We have already decided to Leave, there is no need for another remain option in a how we should leave referendum.

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A1X said:

Except there are rules about what can and can't be put on a referendum ballot paper. Parliament is sovereign but it is not above the rules.

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JC Footy Genius said:

No one knows what effect particular lies on either side had on voting intentions. You say 700,000 votes swayed by the NHS bus claim I could say 500,000 votes swayed by the immediate recession and half a million more unemployed claim.

We were also told no deal is better than a bad deal although May seems intent on reneging on that promise too.

Agree with your last point I bet they can't believe their luck how weak and inept our negotiating strategy has been ... unfortunately for them and us, the deal is so poor it couldn't even get through the HoC, to no one's surprise.

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Baldseagull said:

Less of a fantasy than yours with No Deal on the ballot, come on, fairs fair, I played your fantasy referendum, you play mine.

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Pavilionaire said:

The HoC rejected May's deal by a record 230 votes. By definition that has to be a Bad Deal. I don't see that a time limit on the backstop is going to make it a Good Deal all of a sudden, so if No Deal is better than a Bad Deal right now it looks like we're crashing out.

I just watched Greg Clarke taking questions in a parliamentary sub-committee and one MP made the point it can take 6 weeks for container ships from the Far East to reach the UK, so if Parliament hasn't reached agreement by 15 Feb then those ships are leaving not knowing what customs arrangements will be in place when they dock.

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