[Politics] Brexit

nicko31 · Mar 5, 2019

Thunder Bolt said:
The lies are just as blatant as at the start.

[tweet]1102900019127111680[/tweet]

Wow, in terms of lies really giving Trump a run for his money...

A majority would be happy to go out with no withdrawal agreement, that gets the highest scoring of the lot

nicko31 · Mar 5, 2019

beorhthelm said:
BMW have been contemplating what to do with Cowley for years. they want to move production of new electric motors to Germany and probably main production too, as they can produce cheaper there.

That is a complete lie

They are on my doorstep and I know a fair few that work there, if they move it will only be because of Brexit

The success of this plant has surpassed all expectations, in fact the Mini has been one of the greatest stories of UK manufacturing in the past two decades

pb21 · Mar 5, 2019

beorhthelm said:
BMW have been contemplating what to do with Cowley for years. they want to move production of new electric motors to Germany and probably main production too, as they can produce cheaper there.

I'm not sure this is true. I have been involved in some work with regard to their factory in the past couple of years, and it involved them spending a lot of money, which they wouldn't have needed to do if production was ceasing.

Regardless, if they were thinking about it Brexit makes the decision a lot easier.

Pavilionaire · Mar 5, 2019

It must be plain to anyone with eyes and ears that the future of the whole UK car industry is at stake here, so it is shocking to hear so many Conservatives championing Leave Now and - by doing so - condemning it to a quick and unpleasant death.

The last time the Tories showed this contempt for such a large single industry was the mid-80s and the Miner's Strike.

beorhthelm · Mar 5, 2019

nicko31 said:
That is a complete lie

They are on my doorstep and I know a fair few that work there, if they move it will only be because of Brexit

The success of this plant has surpassed all expectations, in fact the Mini has been one of the greatest stories of UK manufacturing in the past two decades

pb21 said:
I'm not sure this is true. I have been involved in some work with regard to their factory in the past couple of years, and it involved them spending a lot of money, which they wouldn't have needed to do if production was ceasing.

Regardless, if they were thinking about it Brexit makes the decision a lot easier.

its only what i read about industry some while back, in particular the shift away from ICE to electric leading to re-aligning manufacturing. as you say its successful and investment continues, it wouldnt make much sense to leave just because of leaving EU, yet the previous posters were saying that. so which is it? we've seen Honda change their view, so perhaps BMW is yet to commit either way and Brexit will of course be a factor.

pb21 · Mar 5, 2019

Pavilionaire said:
It must be plain to anyone with eyes and ears that the future of the whole UK car industry is at stake here, so it is shocking to hear so many Conservatives championing Leave Now and - by doing so - condemning it to a quick and unpleasant death.

The last time the Tories showed this contempt for such a large single industry was the mid-80s and the Miner's Strike.

Indeed. After one brexiteer posted a link to the transcript of a 2016 House of Lords Select Committee with Mr Richard Eglin (Senior Trade Advisor, White and Case LLP) and Dr Christos Tsinopoulos (Senior Lecturer, Durham University), I saw it was said in 2016:

199.In relation to industrial goods, Mr Eglin highlighted that automobiles were a “heavily restricted sector”, with a 10% tariff on cars and a 22% tariff on trucks and lorries.286 Similar tariffs apply throughout the supply chain, and Dr Christos Tsinopoulos, Senior Lecturer, Durham University, explained that “trade barriers and more specifically, tariffs, are often seen as a key issue in the decision making process of location of a part of the supply chain. Such barriers increase costs, and complicate decision making.”287

I mean I know these are experts in their field and members of the liberal elite, but they seem to have got it right. Probably just lucky though.

https://publications.parliament.uk/p...om/72/7202.htm

nicko31 · Mar 5, 2019

Pavilionaire said:
It must be plain to anyone with eyes and ears that the future of the whole UK car industry is at stake here, so it is shocking to hear so many Conservatives championing Leave Now and - by doing so - condemning it to a quick and unpleasant death.

The last time the Tories showed this contempt for such a large single industry was the mid-80s and the Miner's Strike.

It really does feel like the greatest assault on British industry since Thatcher war with Unions .

Every leaver on here owns their little part of it, a combination of blind ignorance and self centeredness.

Deleted member 22389 · Mar 5, 2019

nicko31 said:
It really does feel like the greatest assault on British industry since Thatcher war with Unions .

Every leaver on here owns their little part of it, a combination of blind ignorance and self centeredness.

So what about the millions of jobs we have lost over the years to countries like China? Who's fault was that?. All the companies I worked for went years ago, because they simply couldn't compete on price. With Brexit we might lose some jobs, but we might also gain new ones, it's nothing new. I do wish the MSM would also be a bit more positive, and stop giving the impression the car industry is the only thing we have. We do actually manufacture other things.

WATFORD zero · Mar 5, 2019

Pavilionaire said:
I think Corbyn will then have to propose a People's Vote, but the key is getting HoC to agree to the question on the a ballot paper. This is where it gets interesting because you really have to offer people a Remain option, you have to offer people a credible Leave option too, but you can't offer a third choice otherwise could split the vote three ways with no majority. However, if the choice is Remain or a cliff edge Leave then not having some sort of transition period could be damaging.

I think there's merit in having a 'Remain or Leave' and then if you've ticked 'Leave' you then get a choice of 'Leave now' or 'May's Withdrawal Agreement'. If Leave gets the majority then whichever of the two Leave options polls highest is the one the UK goes for.

Lincoln Imp said:
One problem with the suggestion in the last para is that it will work only with Leave voters of the "I-want-to-leave-and-I-don't-care-how" variety. These people would have a view on whether May's Deal or No-Deal is better - they see them as variants of the same thing - and would choose accordingly. There are plenty of people like that - most leave posters on this thread for example - but several of the Leave voters I know would actually prefer to Remain than accept May's so-called Brino. Even B Johnson has suggested he might be one of them. Your excellent idea wouldn't work for such people.

Here's one I prepared earlier, although [MENTION=4019]Triggaaar[/MENTION] should really get the credit for explaining how it would work

https://www.northstandchat.com/showthread.php?368879-1st-2nd-choice-Referendum-Poll

Westdene Seagull · Mar 5, 2019

WATFORD zero said:
With 24 days to go, she is feeling quite confident

Only quite confident ? Strange given her master has ABSOLUTELY said there is NO chance of 'no deal' ...... not a chance in hell. You'd think she'd be more than 'quite confident'. Yet given her master made his statement in October / November last year and there has been NO change in the situation since .... even with a few days to go .... it might say more of her master than her :wink:

WATFORD zero · Mar 5, 2019

Westdene Seagull said:
Only quite confident ? Strange given her master has ABSOLUTELY said there is NO chance of 'no deal' ...... not a chance in hell. You'd think she'd be more than 'quite confident'. Yet given her master made his statement in October / November last year and there has been NO change in the situation since .... even with a few days to go .... it might say more of her master than her

Between you and me, I think she is probably far more than 'quite confident' but I just don't think she's the boastful type :wink:

Triggaaar · Mar 5, 2019

bashlsdir said:
So what about the millions of jobs we have lost over the years to countries like China? Who's fault was that?

That was because of Brexit. Sure, it was a couple of decades earlier, but they knew.

Stat Brother · Mar 5, 2019

[tweet]1102825644323454976[/tweet]

Lincoln Imp · Mar 5, 2019

Pavilionaire said:
The EU has been entirely consistent and predictable throughout and will certainly give us an extension provided there is some sort of game changing event in the extension period such as a General Election or People's Vote. I think that's fair enough.

As for my 'two option' for Leave, this is one more option that Leavers had in 2016. Anyone who wants No Deal has that choice, while anyone choosing May's Withdrawal Agreement buys some time for the government to actually negotiate a Deal.

Indeed, my proposal is generous to Leavers because it may even persuade some Remainers to vote for May's Deal if they're equally as happy with Soft Brexit / Norway Option. But that's the carrot offered to the ERG that may get their votes with Corbyn to get a majority in the HoC for a People's Vote.

I agree with all that. My hypothesis about the EU refusing to give May the extension she wanted was predicated on the assumption that she wouldn't be prepared to countenance a GE/Ref2. As we both think, if she just wanted an extension to faff around some more then the EU would be unlikely to agree (unless it was clear that she was on the brink of getting parliament's approval).

Deleted member 22389 · Mar 5, 2019

Triggaaar said:
That was because of Brexit. Sure, it was a couple of decades earlier, but they knew.

Does my bloody head in. I don't blame people here, I blame the MSM for whipping people up.

CHAPPERS · Mar 5, 2019

****ing Tories.

Deleted member 22389 · Mar 5, 2019

Stat Brother said:
[tweet]1102825644323454976[/tweet]

So has she registered yet? I registered my mum and she got settled status.

Lincoln Imp · Mar 5, 2019

WATFORD zero said:
Here's one I prepared earlier, although [MENTION=4019]Triggaaar[/MENTION] should really get the credit for explaining how it would work

https://www.northstandchat.com/showthread.php?368879-1st-2nd-choice-Referendum-Poll

View attachment 105301

Interesting. You could interpret it various ways but it does suggest that more than a third of those who most like No Deal would indeed make No Brexit their second choice. I still prefer Pavilionaire's prediction to mine though.

Westdene Seagull · Mar 5, 2019

Stat Brother said:
[tweet]1102825644323454976[/tweet]

I clearly don't have a heart then. What a load of B011ocks !!!! So she has to register for settled status .... a quick and easy process according to many of those that have done it. Really, that video is political claptrap.

vegster · Mar 5, 2019

Stat Brother said:
[tweet]1102825644323454976[/tweet]

Farage would say that she came over here and stole a Scottish Shortbread job from a local.

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