As a parent should I give my kids sweets every time they cry even though they have a good life already?
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[Politics] Brexit
- Thread starter KingstonSeagull
- Start date
As a parent should I give my kids sweets every time they cry even though they have a good life already?
Mtoto
Well-known member
- Sep 28, 2003
- 1,841
Which FOM? Capital, services, goods or people?
I don't know, how much do they contribute to your household income?
Baker lite
Banned
pb21
Well-known member
- Apr 23, 2010
- 6,314
He either said it because he thinks, rightly or wrongly, it will help either a deal to come about or Brexit to be reversed, or he said it because he is a bit of a narcissist/nob.
Potentially he thought he would unite the British against the rude EU, that way they may actually get something done.
seagulls4ever
New member
- Oct 2, 2003
- 4,338
That's a pretty poor analogy.
Part the problem was not everyone felt they had a good life, having been left behind by globalisation and undercutting of wages. If your children don't feel they have a good life then you should try to show them some empathy and try and make things better for them, even if you think they are wrong.
Plus, it was the first time that there was a serious possibility of us leaving. So the 'every time' part of the analogy doesn't work either.
Basically the UK had an opt out of pretty much everything outside the four freedoms if it so wanted. It would have made the UK entire;y unique in what concessions it had got out of the EU, and indeed there were misgivings in the EU at the time at the amount of concession given to the UK. Add this to the already mentioned ability to impose restrictions on the freedoms through the existing framework and the UK's veto on any EU policy it didn't much like and you can see that actually the EU gave the UK an awful lot of rope.
Try reading into the detail and not the headlines - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35622105
Murray 17
Well-known member
- Jul 6, 2003
- 2,159
I was not aware of this.
Why didn't Remain make more of it?
The point about EU citizens who have not worked for 3 months, being repatriated, I guess is down to us not having a record of who enters the UK?
Because no political party is prepared to say “we have not controlled immigration” because they know it will be electoral suicide. For politicians the party is often more important than country.
Because instead of a positive campaign around what was good about the EU the remain campaign decided, to their own detriment, to concentrate on the imagined disaster that would happen if we voted leave.
Garry Nelson's teacher
Well-known member
A line from Robert Burns seems relevant here not sure if was an SNP member)
"O would some power the giftie gie us to see ourselves as others see us."
This became politically impossible because the government had been happy to blame immigrants for everything linked to austerity and other government policies. They could not then say “actually we need immigrants and if we leave then we will need more of them from outside the EU”
Not everyone that voted leave voted that way because of immigration ..... I didn't for example. There were plenty of other elements that the remain campaign could have concentrated on that would have shown being in the EU as a positive thing.
Baldseagull
Well-known member
Perhaps he would not have made the comment had Grayling not said yesterday that Brussels will be to blame, not Britain for a No Deal exit if it happens.
pb21
Well-known member
- Apr 23, 2010
- 6,314
I suspect this came about because you had to try and encourage people to get out and vote for the status quo, rather than change. At the start, and throughout to be fair, positives of remaining in the EU were talked about by the remain side, but brexiteers just said things would be more positive and better if we left. Easy really.
Given that the change option was massively oversold, the status quo side tried to massively undersell it.
Not really worse than the insults thrown by Farage etc.
They are of course outraged by this, poor little snowflakes
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
As with the post above, while the Tory raison d'être for campaigning is fear of what will happen if you don't vote for them, I somewhat agree that the referendum was a choice between what we knew to be imperfect, having its flaws but also numerous benefits, vs......well anything you could dream up really. Money for NHS, trade deals, controlled immigration, sovereignty gained (that we never actually lost) and there was no need for reality. As soon as the promise of unicorns were countered, it was 'Project Fear'.
We're at the reality now. Had the leave campaign been about back stops, the implications to the GFA, the potential for a no deal scenario, would have been interesting how that played out. Instead we had false buses and campaign posters straight out of the Nazi handbook.
I'm not saying you were influenced by that, but you'd have to agree campaigning for a utopia you can invent, against a reality was just too much for a fresh inventive positive approach from Cameron et al.
Baldseagull
Well-known member
I don't think that is quite right, those refugees Merkel took in were given temporary asylum in Germany, that does not confer the same rights as EU citizens to live and work anywhere in the EU, yes they could travel around in the Schengen area because passports are not required, but not everywhere, that is the same for any foreign visitor to anywhere in Schengen.
In five years they could apply for permanent residency if they have not returned home, but even that does not convey on them the same rights as EU citizens.
To become German citizens the requirements that you need to fulfill in order to qualify for naturalization are as follows:
You must have lived in Germany on a residence permit for at least 8 years, or
You must have lived in Germany on a residence permit for 7 years and attended an integration course (this becomes 6 years on special integration circumstances)
You must prove German language proficiency of at least B1
You must be financially able to support yourself and your family without any help from the state
You must be a law-abiding citizen with no criminal record
You must pass a citizenship test
You must renounce any previous citizenships