[Politics] Brexit

CHAPPERS · Mar 13, 2019

Bold Seagull said:
The ERG always have been.

He's not a card carrier is he, but he was Vote Leave? Either way, in the face of this new tariff schedule that he himself doesn't know the effect of , he's happy for chaos.

nicko31 · Mar 13, 2019

drew said:
Did you actually listen to the clip? You seem to doff your cap to someone with a plum in their voice and take as read everything they say. It's clear he doesn't give a stuff about UK manufacturing or farming as any decline in that will be made up in opportunities in other industries, namely finance in which he has made substantial amounts. Very much a case of I'm alright jack.

Uber disaster capitalist in his father's own footsteps, a faux friend of the poor....

Mellotron · Mar 13, 2019

Bold Seagull said:
I think that is the case. Wouldn't happen though, so Thursday would be a vote to extend.

Sure, but then the EU (rightly) tells us to **** right off with the extension, then we’re back to the same position.

So what then?

Postman Pat · Mar 13, 2019

I voted remain, but would vote to leave with Teresa May's deal, but wouldn't vote to leave with no deal, but as that isn't an option above I have no idea.

I'm at a point where I think no brexit could be more damaging for the country than no deal.

Blue Valkyrie · Mar 13, 2019

Obviously I am not a 'fan' of Rees Mogg.

Too many question marks.

https://www.byline.com/column/67/article/1777

TWOCHOICEStom · Mar 13, 2019

This whole thing is a bit like when students base their entire dissertation on a shit questionnaire they posted on NSC.

ManOfSussex · Mar 13, 2019

This is the amendment on the Government motion to look out for today that will rule out no deal entirely:

[tweet]1105733909873156096[/tweet]

Nick Watt on Newsnight last night thought it would pass:

[tweet]1105600499691085824[/tweet]

I guess if it happens it'll be MV3 and see if the ERG and DUP suddenly love the WA.

Mellotron · Mar 13, 2019

I’m genuinely baffled that more than 5% of people would still vote Leave after the utter political chaos of the last couple of years.

dolphins · Mar 13, 2019

BBassic said:
Voted Remain the first time, would vote Remain the 2nd time.

Literally nothing has happened in the last couple of years that has made me even think about changing my vote.

This.

Baldseagull · Mar 13, 2019

clapham_gull said:
Exactly, bureaucracy is a modern fact of live and solicitors I know are simply preparing to write it back into UK law.

There are many good reasons to leave the EU, but for the hardliners in the Tory party - Brexit is simply a means to an end. They hate regulation of any kind. It's a race to the bottom.

This isn't project fear - it's project ideology. A hark bark to the bonkers economists in the 1980s whose dreams simply failed. Rees Mogg is having another go.

The EU is protectionist, of course it is, but so is any trading block. If you operate within it - you are protected. In the mind of Rees Mogg, if your industry is protected by a tariff into the EU then you are a failure and should go out of business.

Listen to him. He never talks about business - he only talks about consumers. When he talks about "sovereignty" he really means personal freedom and f### everyone else.

He isn't right wing at all, but dangerously neo-liberal. Survival of the fittest, especially if you have a few million in the bank to start with.

I'm amazed anyone has fallen for him and his other financier mates like Farage.

His Father co-authored a book titled the Sovereign Individual, it's about the possibilities of the digital age to free yourself of burdens like subjecting your wealth to taxation, and taking advantage of Nation States loss of power. Here is Alistair Campbells take on it https://alastaircampbell.org/2018/0...lps-understand-rees-mogg-love-of-hard-brexit/

Dorset Seagull · Mar 13, 2019

Mellotron said:
Sure, but then the EU (rightly) tells us to **** right off with the extension, then we’re back to the same position.

So what then?

Parliament will have to find a way to agree on the next steps. I imagine they will have a list of possibilities and keep voting on them with the least voted for option dropping out of the next vote. It will then be a case of last man standing wins the day

Blue Valkyrie · Mar 13, 2019

ManOfSussex said:
This is the amendment on the Government motion to look out for today that will rule out no deal entirely:

[tweet]1105733909873156096[/tweet]

Nick Watt on Newsnight last night thought it would pass:

[tweet]1105600499691085824[/tweet]

I guess if it happens it'll be MV3 and see if the ERG and DUP suddenly love the WA.

It'll be tight, but still too many MPs fall for the lie that keeping *no deal* on the table is necessary for negotiations. The negotiations are over.

Rogero · Mar 13, 2019

There are people in he background stirring the pot like Tony Blair. I feel sorry for the prime minister.

Bwian · Mar 13, 2019

Blue3 said:
Two weeks or there about and it is still a complete unknown I think the origional timetable was for the withdrawl deal to be signed off by Christmas 2018 and by now we should be well into substantive trade talks

Our Parliment is a busted flush the building its antiquated procedures are no longer fit for purpose and needs to be swept away

I just watched a rerun of last evenings Newsnight and everything about Parliment has failed guest after guest politians, journalists the policticI class the establiment all out there being interviewed on college green exposed to the elements as the building is not large enough to allow interviews within its walls other than the lobby,

The chamber itself is not large enough to sit all the MPs while most MPs are forced to share offices such is the lack of space, when in the chamber MPs are lined up to ensure friction which makes for little more than great TV

None of this is conducive to good government in the modern day and is part of our broken political system

Is there a collective appetite to reform Parliament? Unlikely because once they're at the trough they will fight like hell to stay there. Watching Parliamentary sessions on TV is embarrassing. It's all 'Yah Boo Sucks' nonsense, wasting hours every week, all very confrontational. I have no idea how to reform our system but it is, as you say, a busted flush: especially the First Past The Post nonsense. It's what has contributed to the 3 year clusterf*ck we have been subjected to.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

Mellotron · Mar 13, 2019

Simple question for debate;

If No Deal loses by a BIG margin tonight, is Brexit over?

wellquickwoody · Mar 13, 2019

Herr Tubthumper said:
And to think [MENTION=5101]BigGully[/MENTION] once criticised me for saying Country in Crisis and Britain on the Brink. I can think of no other way to describe a nation with a leader who has no power and no authority whatsoever.

Whilst I am, and in reality always will be a firm remainer, I am at least not revelling in the UKs current mess unlike yourself.

A1X · Mar 13, 2019

I voted Remain in 2016. I have seen literally nothing in the last 3 years to indicate to me that I was wrong to make that decision.

The EU is far from perfect. But my goodness it has looked like a beacon of patience and uniformity compared to the absolute shambles we've witnessed in Westminster in that time. And this was about 1 issue. No way would I trust them to sort out anything as serious as "how to import medicines when they aren't in the Single Market", Chris Grayling would probably end up sending them ours instead.

WATFORD zero · Mar 13, 2019

BigGully said:
You weren't commenting on any future scenario it wasn't a forecast, you have just scrolled back over your timeline found some of your previous posts and somehow think they suddenly become valid as they fit in your mind what is happening today, you really are a numpty.

Well it seems that 18 months ago, when HT tried to explain the pharmaceutical industry to you, you suspected that it was all being done in the background and would all work out fine

BigGully said:
I was telling HT who is a committed Remainer and seems to think that the UK is incapable of most things and those posters on here that immediately accept any morsel of impending UK gloom that it is absurd to think that Brexit is likely to cause the outcomes he suggested, HT didn't once offer a view of how these things might be mitigated, it was his usual wallowing of UK incompetence and Brexiteers ignorance and it's all so predictable.

Change is happening, Brexit will involve some challenges, but to think the 5th or 6th largest economy in the world is unable to find solutions to pharmaceutical supply seems unlikely.

BigGully said:
I doubt whether the government is as inept as you say, I suspect that there is an army of highly skilled civil servants that will unpick most regulation and deliver positive outcomes within time frames that don't adversely effect stuff.

I do agree that it is a valid position to challenge costs and implementation times if you think these exists, but that wasn't how HT instigated this debate.

Stockpiling medicines ? Well that all turned out fine :facepalm:

Maybe you should have asked Meg to borrow her crystal ball.

pb21 · Mar 13, 2019

Postman Pat said:
I voted remain, but would vote to leave with Teresa May's deal, but wouldn't vote to leave with no deal, but as that isn't an option above I have no idea.

I'm at a point where I think no brexit could be more damaging for the country than no deal.

That's why the second vote IMO, if there is one, should be May's Brexit deal (AKA the only and best deal) or Remain as is.

Some people, such as yourself, may be more inclined to vote for Brexit as it is apparent what it entails and not some abstract idea, others may be of the opinion that it is not worth it.

Clearly peoples opinion's have changed/evolved.

ManOfSussex · Mar 13, 2019

Blue Valkyrie said:
It'll be tight, but still too many MPs fall for the lie that keeping *no deal* on the table is necessary for negotiations. The negotiations are over.

I saw Nadhim Zahawi on Newsnight last night and James Cleverly on Sky News this morning arguing just that - it's got to be 'kept on the table for the negotiations blah, blah, blah....' :facepalm:

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