[Politics] Brexit

Harry Wilson's tackle said:

'Whiter than white'?

Better, I guess, than . . ..well...let's not go there (woodpiles etc).

Apart from that... the EU don't need to do nuffink. We decided to leave....it is up to us to ask for things....the default is hard Brexit....if we want some deals we have to ask for things....but we are still arguing amongst ourselves what it is we want.....step back and survey the landscape....it can be very easy to forget who is who and what is what....

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Bold Seagull said:

May seeking cross party support would have split the Conservatives, would have fractured the government and weakened them. It would however have strengthened Brexit, because Labour would be forced to the table through the opportunity of power that would have represented. The referendum split both main parties, the party in government had more to lose, but to have properly enacted Brexit, that had to happen.

Brexit would have been fairly simple under a government with a large majority. As a country, we are simply not used to governance with such a slender majority. We think it is a betrayal of Brexit, or whatever else, but actually it is simply a leader whose blinkered approach couldn't accept she had a majority to get this through.

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JC Footy Genius said:

Seeing the recent contributions on this and the other Brexit thread I was reminded of this article ...

When historians of the future look back on Britain in our time, they will surely see our row over Brexit as extraordinary. Not because people disagree and campaign: that is normal and healthy; but because an influential section of the country, and particularly of its upper classes, are refusing to accept the will of the majority as legitimate or binding. It is no exaggeration to call this a revolt, even though it rarely hits the streets. Its unusual nature is shown by the arguments of its hardline supporters – arguments that would undermine any democratic system, and which have rarely been heard in any advanced country since the nineteenth century. For example: that most voters do not know what they are voting for; that working-class voters are too ignorant to make a choice; that people without advanced education should have their political rights reduced; that older people’s opinions have inferior legitimacy. Leaving aside ethical questions concerning equal rights – questions that most of us would have thought had been resolved by the end of the 19th century – these views show astonishing misunderstanding of what democracy is and what it is for. They lack the slightest degree of historical awareness – yet they are put forward with assurance by people who openly regard themselves as superior in education and intelligence.


More....

https://brexitcentral.com/three-categories-revolting-remainer-makes-tick/

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Dorset Seagull said:

That’s a bit daft as even the EU recognised it as a negotiation especially as one of their major contributors was leaving

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clapham_gull said:

The problem with the above is that it's nonsense. Nothing that any remainer has said or believes has caused the current mess.

1) The country voted out (tick)
2) Both major parties put leaving in their manifesto (tick)

The problem is that Parliament can't agree on what leaving looks like and it's specifically the LEAVERS who are arguing.

If you want to vent your anger - vent it at the hard line Brexiteers in the Tory party.

You couldn't make it up. Brexiteers like yourself blaming remain supporters outside parliament.

Wouldn't that be hilarious if we end up staying in. Who Killed Brexit ? Answer: Rees Mogg.

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JC Footy Genius said:

Seeing the recent contributions on this and the other Brexit thread I was reminded of this article ...

When historians of the future look back on Britain in our time, they will surely see our row over Brexit as extraordinary. Not because people disagree and campaign: that is normal and healthy; but because an influential section of the country, and particularly of its upper classes, are refusing to accept the will of the majority as legitimate or binding. It is no exaggeration to call this a revolt, even though it rarely hits the streets. Its unusual nature is shown by the arguments of its hardline supporters – arguments that would undermine any democratic system, and which have rarely been heard in any advanced country since the nineteenth century. For example: that most voters do not know what they are voting for; that working-class voters are too ignorant to make a choice; that people without advanced education should have their political rights reduced; that older people’s opinions have inferior legitimacy. Leaving aside ethical questions concerning equal rights – questions that most of us would have thought had been resolved by the end of the 19th century – these views show astonishing misunderstanding of what democracy is and what it is for. They lack the slightest degree of historical awareness – yet they are put forward with assurance by people who openly regard themselves as superior in education and intelligence.


More....

https://brexitcentral.com/three-categories-revolting-remainer-makes-tick/

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WATFORD zero said:

THIS

It's not Remainers, Theresa May, the EU, The Russians, Tony Blair, Uncle Tom Cobley or anyone else to blame.

This total and complete f*** up is down to the leave voters and them alone.

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WATFORD zero said:

So what elements of the EU do you believe were open to 'negotiation' as I have always seen it as a very simple narrative rather than any sort of 'negotiation'.

For goodness sake, 3 years on, we still can't agree what we should be asking the EU for. We still have no idea what we want to do about the NI/Ireland border, the single biggest issue since the day after the referendum.

How on earth can that be a negotiation between two parties when one still doesn't know what it wants

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WATFORD zero said:

So what elements of the EU do you believe were open to 'negotiation' as I have always seen it as a very simple narrative rather than any sort of 'negotiation'.

For goodness sake, 3 years on, we still can't agree what we should be asking the EU for. We still have no idea what we want to do about the NI/Ireland border, the single biggest issue since the day after the referendum.

How on earth can that be a negotiation between two parties when one still doesn't know what it wants

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clapham_gull said:

The problem with the above is that it's nonsense. Nothing that any remainer has said or believes has caused the current mess.

1) The country voted out (tick)
2) Both major parties put leaving in their manifesto (tick)

The problem is that Parliament can't agree on what leaving looks like and it's specifically the LEAVERS who are arguing.

If you want to vent your anger - vent it at the hard line Brexiteers in the Tory party.

You couldn't make it up. Brexiteers like yourself blaming remain supporters outside parliament.

Wouldn't that be hilarious if we end up staying in. Who Killed Brexit ? Answer: Rees Mogg.

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Dorset Seagull said:

Well the EU didn’t just say oh ok cheerio then so I assume that’s why they decided to enter into a negotiation

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HH Brighton said:

Lets face it if you were stupid enough to vote leave last time, nothing that's happened since would have changed your mind. Having said that the result would be different as all those people that didn't vote thinking it was formality would not get out and vote.

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Bold Seagull said:

There are 66m in the United Kingdom. 33.6m people voted in the referendum. Parliament governs for all of us, not just those that voted for a particular decision, mp, or party.

Part of the reason we are in this mess if because they have focussed far too much on 17m rather than delivering the decision of the referendum that serves 66m.

The main wreckers of Brexit are; 1. The Government, 2. the ERG, 3. the DUP.

Following the 2017 General Election, the Tory party should have realised that 16.3m people voted for other parties that either favoured a soft Brexit or to remain in the EU from their manifestos, and only 13.9m voted for the Tory / DUP manifesto pledges of a hard Brexit.

It would seem that from any measure, whether the referendum result itself, the subsequent general election, that a softer approach should have been pursued and cross part support obtained.

The bloody disgrace without a shadow of a doubt lies with the government and the PM.

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On the way said:

Have the government f***ed it up though?

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Plooks said:

A remainer would not be in charge of leaving. The people in charge are leavers by definition. Leavers need to face the fact that they have no idea what they are doing.

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Plooks said:

She is clearly a leaver. Why would she negotiate a way to LEAVE, be leader of a party who pledged to LEAVE?

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Plooks said:

She is clearly a leaver. Why would she negotiate a way to LEAVE, be leader of a party who pledged to LEAVE?

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Plooks said:

What? If she was remain like you claim she would have rescinded article 50 the day she became PM. She didn't, she persisted with brexit. So she is a leaver.

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