Questionable Refereeing

Eeyore · Sep 25, 2016

Apparently, UEFA knew for five years prior to Anderlecht's ban about the bribery of the referee in the Forest match.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-37453762

It got me thinking. Has anyone seriously watched a match and wondered if there was evident bias going on ? (Obviously it's subjective)

For me, England v Italy in the 1977 WC campaign at Wembley. Every 50/50 seemed to go against us that night.

(N.B No direct accusations advised, just views on poor refereeing....)

Gwylan · Sep 25, 2016

The South Korea v Italy game in the 2003 WC. It was hilarious seeing Italy lose but there were some very iffy decisions from a ref who was subsequently suspended several times after dodgy decisions. He eventually got banged up for smuggling heroin

severnside gull · Sep 25, 2016

Overall refereeing standards this season seem lower and less consistent than ever.
Cue my perennial question whether some aren't involved in betting scams.
Given the money sloshing around in football it just feels unlikely that it isn't happening right now.

fat old seagull · Sep 25, 2016

Had the 'Utter Shyster' had a wager that day, I wonder?

Gary1 · Sep 26, 2016

To my mind there is no doubt that there are bent refs about. Easy enough to get someone else to lay a bet for you. The ref is the one person who can influence a game the most.

Audax · Sep 26, 2016

Maybe Football needs to bring in some sort of (fully independent) referee review/promotion/demotion system along the lines of what cricket has done with the Elite Panel for international umpires.

Would obviously need to be scaled to accommodate making sure the Prem gets the best of the best, Champ gets the next best, etc. A well designed system would encourage the refs to be as good, and unbiased, as they can be as consistently as possible because that would be the only way to get the most lucrative assignments.

Kinky Gerbil · Sep 26, 2016

severnside gull said:
Overall refereeing standards this season seem lower and less consistent than ever.
Cue my perennial question whether some aren't involved in betting scams.
Given the money sloshing around in football it just feels unlikely that it isn't happening right now.

Is that the case? or is it more camera's etc at games means every decision is watched 100 times in super slow mo?

Kinky Gerbil · Sep 26, 2016

Audax said:
Maybe Football needs to bring in some sort of (fully independent) referee review/promotion/demotion system along the lines of what cricket has done with the Elite Panel for international umpires.

Would obviously need to be scaled to accommodate making sure the Prem gets the best of the best, Champ gets the next best, etc. A well designed system would encourage the refs to be as good, and unbiased, as they can be as consistently as possible because that would be the only way to get the most lucrative assignments.

A good system would be to look after the refs and back them at all levels, no one wants to be a ref any more, which means we are left with a smaller pool.

Ernest · Sep 26, 2016

The Championship full time referees this season are useless, Fatboy Hooper can't keep up with play, Gurning Stroud flashing cards for everything and that idiot we had on Saturday. Are they really the best referees in the League ?

ROSM · Sep 26, 2016

Reffing my sons' games has been a real eye opener.

Nobody goes into games with an intention to be rubbish. Nobody goes into it with a view to be biased. But we arent professional and will make mistakes. After all at that level refs are only there to help out. That doesn't mean that they deserve the smart arse comments that they get from other parents. Given we don't have linesmen until under 11, If a coach can see how the ball has gone out it does help to give the ref a helping hand with a signal.

I saw an under 10 game yesterday as a neutral and the ref was superb. Very fair and balanced and a good balance between calling fouls and not being taken in by diving. one great moment where a player went shoulder to shoulder and went down on the ground and sat there complaining for over a minute . When the ball went out of play the ref asked if he was injured and needed to go off at which point he miraculously got up. However I found out afterwards that one of the teams Facebook pages called the ref partisan and seemed to glory in the fact that one of their players liked putting it about a bit.

With stuff like that is it any wonder that people are put off.

Gwylan · Sep 26, 2016

Gary1 said:
To my mind there is no doubt that there are bent refs about. Easy enough to get someone else to lay a bet for you. The ref is the one person who can influence a game the most.

As there have been bent refs in pretty much every other league, it seems pretty obvious, by the law of averages, that there are dodgy ones here too. Particularly as we have more than our fair share of moody owners and particularly as there is more money sloshing around here than in most other leagues.

Will one get caught? That's the big question.

Official Old Man · Sep 26, 2016

Talk on Saturday about how professional referees next year will give us better refs. But the argument was how can this be so, it will be the same refs but on more money.

Albion my Albion · Sep 26, 2016

I think one must remember that any referee's decision is always going to be thought of as unpopular by one side or the other if it could go to either teams favour and seems to decide the outcome of the game.

Garry Nelson's Left Foot · Sep 26, 2016

Gwylan said:
The South Korea v Italy game in the 2003 WC. It was hilarious seeing Italy lose but there were some very iffy decisions from a ref who was subsequently suspended several times after dodgy decisions. He eventually got banged up for smuggling heroin

I wouldn't trust any of the results in the 2003 world cup...

The Albion Roar · Sep 26, 2016

Brighton Lines said:
Apparently, UEFA knew for five years prior to Anderlecht's ban about the bribery of the referee in the Forest match.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-37453762

It got me thinking. Has anyone seriously watched a match and wondered if there was evident bias going on ? (Obviously it's subjective)

For me, England v Italy in the 1977 WC campaign at Wembley. Every 50/50 seemed to go against us that night.

(N.B No direct accusations advised, just views on poor refereeing....)

Seeing the dive for the penalty, it also seems pretty obvious the Anderlecht players were in on it too, even though the accusation has only been pointed at the then Club President.

As for that England v Italy game, irrespective of the awful refereeing decisions (Tardelli's elbow on Keegan would have been a red card and several match suspension these days - just a telling off from the ref that day), it was a superb performance by England that night. Peter Barnes and Steve Coppell ran the Italians stupid. No wonder they were constantly hacking Barnes over.

Eeyore · Sep 26, 2016

The Albion Roar said:
Seeing the dive for the penalty, it also seems pretty obvious the Anderlecht players were in on it too, even though the accusation has only been pointed at the then Club President.

As for that England v Italy game, irrespective of the awful refereeing decisions (Tardelli's elbow on Keegan would have been a red card and several match suspension these days - just a telling off from the ref that day), it was a superb performance by England that night. Peter Barnes and Steve Coppell ran the Italians stupid. No wonder they were constantly hacking Barnes over.

Indeed. Ultimately it was the performance in Rome that let England down. The WC was very unforgiving in those days- especially if you were second seed in your qualifying group.

I was allowed to stay up for the Wembley game. England were brilliant against what was seemingly twelve men. Even my Mum, who only had a passing interest, was getting wound up by some of the decisions being made.

Eeyore · Sep 26, 2016

Albion my Albion said:
I think one must remember that any referee's decision is always going to be thought of as unpopular by one side or the other if it could go to either teams favour and seems to decide the outcome of the game.

Yes, but a number of the games that stick out will be those that folk watched as a 'neutral'.

brakespear · Sep 26, 2016

Gwylan said:
The South Korea v Italy game in the 2003 WC. It was hilarious seeing Italy lose but there were some very iffy decisions from a ref who was subsequently suspended several times after dodgy decisions. He eventually got banged up for smuggling heroin

He didn't do much of a job the year before either

Postman Pat · Sep 26, 2016

Ernest said:
that idiot we had on Saturday. Are they really the best referees in the League ?

What happened to him at half-time, he refereed the second-half completely different to the first. Maybe someone had a word about his performance.

I remember the good times said:
Talk on Saturday about how professional referees next year will give us better refs. But the argument was how can this be so, it will be the same refs but on more money.

I suppose they will be fitter and therefore more up with play, will help to make better decisions, but I don't believe it has raised the standards in the Premier League any great deal.

Buzzer · Sep 26, 2016

Postman Pat said:
What happened to him at half-time, he refereed the second-half completely different to the first. Maybe someone had a word about his performance.

I'm convinced that the way we were reacting made the ref think long and hard about some of those decisions in the first half and realise that he'd been conned by Barnsley players time and again. His refereeing of the second half was completely at odds with his first half performance. Do the linos and ref share a dressing room? If so, maybe they discussed the decisions between themselves and the linos put the ref right on a few incidents.

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