Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊

Register Log in

[News] Apple facing multi billion Euro tax bill



Bozza

Bozza

You can change this
Helpful Moderator
Jul 4, 2003
55,721
Back in Sussex
Interesting case - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37216176

Particularly interesting in that the Irish government, who would receive billions of Euros, are expected to appeal [in order not to receive billions of Euros].

Sounds like the Irish government are quite happy to, presumably, trade jobs in return for a loss of corporation tax. Doesn't feel quite right.
 




clippedgull

clippedgull

Hotdogs, extra onions
Aug 11, 2003
20,789
Near Ducks, Geese, and Seagulls
more importantly: :D

apple-invite.jpg
 


pastafarian

pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
Not really surprised big multinationals use legal loopholes to bring down their tax bill.
Fracking furious governments worldwide cant agree what tax a global companies should be paying in their own countries.
It really cant be that hard. Sort it out you planks,stop this crap......it really isnt fair and Amazon,Vodaphone,Google and everyone else are not going to go bust if they have to pay their tax at their highest unavoided rate
 


Paul Reids Sock

Paul Reids Sock

Well-known member
Nov 3, 2004
4,458
Paul Reids boot
My understanding is that the irish have allowed it to happen as a trade off for jobs, and also because despite giving the tax cuts they are still earning something from the deal

I also believe that it isn't just Apple that they have such a deal with and they are worried that if this goes against them then a number of other businesses will up and leave the country leaving them a lot worse off in the long run than the short term gain of a billion or 2.

2 questions:

1. Is my understanding correct?

2. As this is an EU ruling, could this see Britain becoming such a haven for these companies when Brexit happens?
2.1. Would this be a good thing?
 


C

Cian

Well-known member
Jul 16, 2003
14,262
Dublin, Ireland
Some suggestions the bill will "only" be a billion euro. Will be appealed at almost any level because of representational damage and the risk they'll move on to pharma companies next.

Apple have about 4,000 staff in Cork; in the middle of an extremely economically disadvantaged area of the city as well so there is some substance to their operations rather than just a tax shell company - of which there's plenty too.

edit: suggestions were very, very wrong.
 
Last edited:








Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
59,523
The Fatherland
Paul Reids Sock said:
2. As this is an EU ruling, could this see Britain becoming such a haven for these companies when Brexit happens?
2.1. Would this be a good thing?
Click to expand...

The U.K. is already a haven for big corporations paying **** all tax. No, it's not a good thing as it's unfair and heavily benefits big business over small.
 




Leekbrookgull

Leekbrookgull

Well-known member
Jul 14, 2005
16,250
Leek
Paul Reids Sock said:
My understanding is that the irish have allowed it to happen as a trade off for jobs, and also because despite giving the tax cuts they are still earning something from the deal

I also believe that it isn't just Apple that they have such a deal with and they are worried that if this goes against them then a number of other businesses will up and leave the country leaving them a lot worse off in the long run than the short term gain of a billion or 2.

2 questions:

1. Is my understanding correct?

2. As this is an EU ruling, could this see Britain becoming such a haven for these companies when Brexit happens?
2.1. Would this be a good thing?
Click to expand...

Your second point is a good one as the EU spokeswoman has clearly read-out ALL MEMBER STATES,so what happens next if we do actually Brexit ?
 


Leekbrookgull

Leekbrookgull

Well-known member
Jul 14, 2005
16,250
Leek
Herr Tubthumper,you know as well as me and like someone has already pointed out the only way really around this is top close tax havens,unify VAT and national tax laws,but do you really expect that to happen ?
 


Baldseagull

Baldseagull

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2012
10,947
Crawley
Paul Reids Sock said:
My understanding is that the irish have allowed it to happen as a trade off for jobs, and also because despite giving the tax cuts they are still earning something from the deal

I also believe that it isn't just Apple that they have such a deal with and they are worried that if this goes against them then a number of other businesses will up and leave the country leaving them a lot worse off in the long run than the short term gain of a billion or 2.

2 questions:

1. Is my understanding correct?

2. As this is an EU ruling, could this see Britain becoming such a haven for these companies when Brexit happens?
2.1. Would this be a good thing?
Click to expand...

Ireland are also earning tax on profits made elsewhere in the EU, but run through Ireland. Ireland does well out of the deal by an increased tax take as well. Having set up there, Apple will shift operations only if it can get a better deal elsewhere in the EU. What the EU is trying to stamp out, is a situation where large corporations offer to channel their EU business through a country if that country will go easy on them tax wise. I believe it is permissable to have low rates for everyone, just not special rates for one or two companies. Ireland will possibly have to adjust it's tax code so that all tech companies get the special rate.

The Brexit bit is why getting access to the single market will take a lot of negotiation, the EU will not want to give us an advantage over EU countries in attracting foreign business to set up here, rather than there.
If we somehow negotiated a deal where we did have an advantage, it would be good for Britain, bad for the EU, initially, but it would damage relations with the EU and some sort of action would be taken.

The point of a Union is to stand together to get a fairer deal for everyone, when a party is allowed to get special treatment from one member of a Union, it weakens the Union. It may be good for that one member this time, and not so good for everyone else, but ultimately makes all members worse off, as they then compete to offer the cheapest deal to the massive companies.
 




Paul Reids Sock

Paul Reids Sock

Well-known member
Nov 3, 2004
4,458
Paul Reids boot
Baldseagull said:
Ireland are also earning tax on profits made elsewhere in the EU, but run through Ireland. Ireland does well out of the deal by an increased tax take as well. Having set up there, Apple will shift operations only if it can get a better deal elsewhere in the EU. What the EU is trying to stamp out, is a situation where large corporations offer to channel their EU business through a country if that country will go easy on them tax wise. I believe it is permissable to have low rates for everyone, just not special rates for one or two companies. Ireland will possibly have to adjust it's tax code so that all tech companies get the special rate.

The Brexit bit is why getting access to the single market will take a lot of negotiation, the EU will not want to give us an advantage over EU countries in attracting foreign business to set up here, rather than there.
If we somehow negotiated a deal where we did have an advantage, it would be good for Britain, bad for the EU, initially, but it would damage relations with the EU and some sort of action would be taken.

The point of a Union is to stand together to get a fairer deal for everyone, when a party is allowed to get special treatment from one member of a Union, it weakens the Union. It may be good for that one member this time, and not so good for everyone else, but ultimately makes all members worse off, as they then compete to offer the cheapest deal to the massive companies.
Click to expand...

Ah nice - thank you.

I am not too well read on the finances and tax loopholes/havens etc. so find this all rather interesting
 




Two Professors

Two Professors

Two Mad Professors
Jul 13, 2009
7,617
Multicultural Brum
Oh dear.Does this mean the absolutely charming Michael O'Leary will get a hefty tax bill as well? :lolol:
 




GOM

GOM

living vicariously
Aug 8, 2005
3,225
Leeds - but not the dirty bit
So basically, countries in the EU are not free to set their own tax rates and deals ?
 


Bozza

Bozza

You can change this
Helpful Moderator
Jul 4, 2003
55,721
Back in Sussex
GOM said:
So basically, countries in the EU are not free to set their own tax rates and deals ?
Click to expand...

No, they absolutely are allowed to set their own tax rates.

They are not allowed to offer individual companies preferential deals that differ from those tax rates.
 




Two Professors

Two Professors

Two Mad Professors
Jul 13, 2009
7,617
Multicultural Brum
Expect the European Commission were jealous of the Irish Parliament's high tech equipment-Apple should have offered them freebies,as well! :tantrum:
 




highflyer

highflyer

Well-known member
Jan 21, 2016
2,434
Bozza said:
No, they absolutely are allowed to set their own tax rates.

They are not allowed to offer individual companies preferential deals that differ from those tax rates.
Click to expand...
That is true. It is also true that in our increasingly globalized, increasingly digital economy, dominated by a small number of very large transnational corporations, the concept of 'tax sovereignty' is beginning to lose much meaning.

We need tax cooperation not tax competition. And the EU is to be commended for at least trying to move in that direction.
 


S

Springal

Well-known member
Feb 12, 2005
23,830
GOSBTS
It isn't necessary tax avoidance. Plenty of countries give tax breaks or incentives for firms to set up shop there for jobs.

Canada have done it for film production companies for years.
 


You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Albion and Premier League latest from Sky Sports


Top
Link Here