412 votes to 149: Parallels between the votes on Iraq and Bexit

Pavilionaire said:

Like Brexit this was a democratic majority with an outcome shaped by the voters believing misinformation and lies.

Had those MPs known then what Chilcot has since revealed in his Report then Blair's motion would not have stood a chance and if MPs could turn back the clock they would certainly vote against the war and the Pandora's Box of disaster it unleashed.

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Machiavelli said:

The big difference is that:
-- over the invasion of Iraq, it was the MPs that had been subjected to, and believed, the (non-sexed down) information, whereas about half the public (see opinion polls at the time) thought it was all a load of tosh -- on this, from the little I've gleaned from Chilcot, it does seem like an impressive piece of work
-- over Brexit, MPs by a considerable majority were against it probably because they were acutely aware of the operations between UK and the EU, whereas a sufficient proportion of the UK -- or, put better, (little) English and Welsh -- public had been fed a continuous drip-drip about nasty immigrants and, to a lesser degree, the loss of sovereignty.
So, the constituencies are reversed in each case.

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Giraffe said:

I completely fail to see how the two are linked in any way shape or form and therefore am tempted to move this thread as it's just yet another feeble attempt to discuss BREXIT for the millionth time!

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Pavilionaire said:

You're over-analysing it. The point is that both outcomes - invading Iraq and Brexit - were voted in on the basis of lies and deceit and that had the arguments been based on facts and best guesses we wouldn't have invaded Iraq and we wouldn't have voted for Brexit.

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Giraffe said:

I completely fail to see how the two are linked in any way shape or form and therefore am tempted to move this thread as it's just yet another feeble attempt to discuss BREXIT for the millionth time!

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Machiavelli said:

As against both Iraq and Brexit as I was, I wouldn't necessarily characterise either as deploying lies, precisely because facts pertain to the past, whereas what most of these were dealing with was what might happen in the future.

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Pavilionaire said:

Today with the reaction to the Chilcot Report I am reminded that on 18th March 2003 Parliament voted 412-149 in favour of the invasion of Iraq.

Like Brexit this was a democratic majority with an outcome shaped by the voters believing misinformation and lies.

Had those MPs known then what Chilcot has since revealed in his Report then Blair's motion would not have stood a chance and if MPs could turn back the clock they would certainly vote against the war and the Pandora's Box of disaster it unleashed.

Click to expand...

Machiavelli said:

The big difference is that:
-- over the invasion of Iraq, it was the MPs that had been subjected to, and believed, the (non-sexed down) information, whereas about half the public (see opinion polls at the time) thought it was all a load of tosh -- on this, from the little I've gleaned from Chilcot, it does seem like an impressive piece of work
-- over Brexit, MPs by a considerable majority were against it probably because they were acutely aware of the operations between UK and the EU, whereas a sufficient proportion of the UK -- or, put better, (little) English and Welsh -- public had been fed a continuous drip-drip about nasty immigrants and, to a lesser degree, the loss of sovereignty.
So, the constituencies are reversed in each case.

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Triggaaar said:

I blame people like you for Brexit.

You obviously knew it was a bad idea, but you weren't capable of properly explaining it to us thickos, so we voted leave. If you had done a better job, we wouldn't be in this mess.

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Pavilionaire said:

Today with the reaction to the Chilcot Report I am reminded that on 18th March 2003 Parliament voted 412-149 in favour of the invasion of Iraq.

Like Brexit this was a democratic majority with an outcome shaped by the voters believing misinformation and lies.

Had those MPs known then what Chilcot has since revealed in his Report then Blair's motion would not have stood a chance and if MPs could turn back the clock they would certainly vote against the war and the Pandora's Box of disaster it unleashed.

Click to expand...

Pavilionaire said:

You're over-analysing it. The point is that both outcomes - invading Iraq and Brexit - were voted in on the basis of lies and deceit and that had the arguments been based on facts and best guesses we wouldn't have invaded Iraq and we wouldn't have voted for Brexit.

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yxee said:

Get over it, seriously.

Don't pretend the lies were one-sided.

An MP vote is totally different from a national referendum.

I could carry on listing reasons why this is a ridiculous comparison,

But you won't listen.

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Pavilionaire said:

You're over-analysing it. The point is that both outcomes - invading Iraq and Brexit - were voted in on the basis of lies and deceit and that had the arguments been based on facts and best guesses we wouldn't have invaded Iraq and we wouldn't have voted for Brexit.

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Brighton Mod said:

Well, I never thought that Sadam had access to an ICBM and the 45 minute threat to me was a non starter. MPs, in my opinion are not as clever and informed as they think and have a sheep like mentality and are always willing to send someone elses sons and daughters to war. The Brexit analogy in this case is poor, the judgement on the population you make is that they cannot see, feel and hear immigration etc. A million people marched to stop the war and it didn't work, thirty thousand march for a second referendum, its got no chance. The electorate are smarter than politicians, political parties and think tanks think and they exacted that in the referendum.
There has been since the vote a conserted effort by the media to portray those who voted for Brexit as earning below £18k in general, those over 65, those who did not attend university and those from the far right. The groups of people who the intellectuals think don't count in our society, its very poor and its even continuing on here.

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Pavilionaire said:

I'm angry that political vanity led to Parliament being wilfully misled over Iraq, and I'm angry that a Brexit campaign can be focused on a lie about leaving the EU to save the NHS.

I'm very happy to listen, to reason and debate but the fact there has been backtracking on the Brexit promises while "Project Fear" is being played out already as the Brexit leaders run for cover shows the LEAVE campaign was an exercise in fantasy.

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