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[Off topic] Right to manage/buying freehold



Arthur

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2003
8,553
Buxted Harbour
Anyone on here have any experience of either issuing a right to manage to a freeholder or attempting buy a freehold?

Long story short, I live in a block of 9 flats all leasehold in Crowborough. The freeholder is a delightful company based in Bognor they employ an even more delightful company based in Birmingham and Southampton to manage the block. They have decided that our garage block needs the roof replacing they have obtained three quotes from building firms based in Havent, Southampton and Christchurch. They have decided to use the latter claiming they have been unable to source a local building firm to do the work. When questioned as to why they have chosen a company 120 miles away they have simply told us no local firms were recommended when they first wrote to us about the work. This is simply not true as at least 3 firms were suggested by residents. Unsurprisingly the 3 quotes for the work were astronomical as the management company take a 10% cut for their trouble. Clearly none of the builders have inspected the site as one claimed it was grade two listed (garage block built early eighties!). All 9 leaseholders have written to complain about the choice of contractors and their charges I finally got a reply saying my concerns had been noted yesterday 21 days after my original email and another resident got a similar email last week leaving 7 flat owners not to even have their email acknowledged.

The positive from all this is that it's meant the 9 flat owners have got together and all have refused to pay a bean before the management company have obtained three more quotes from local firms. As a group we've gone out and obtained one quote so far and have two more on the way and surprise surprise the quote came in under half of what had been quoted by the three from Hampshire.

We're also looking into ideally buying the freehold but having read up on that it seems it is a lengthy and drawn out process which would cost a ton in legal fees so may not be feasible financially. Right to manage on the other hand sounds very achievable from what I've read. My question to the good folk of NSC is have any of you gone through either process? Obviously buying the freehold would require a lot of legal advice but I've read conflicting reports whether it's worth getting a solicitor for RTM?

Any advice or recommendations of companies to use would be gratefully received.
 




Swillis

Banned
Dec 10, 2015
1,568
Anyone on here have any experience of either issuing a right to manage to a freeholder or attempting buy a freehold?

Long story short, I live in a block of 9 flats all leasehold in Crowborough. The freeholder is a delightful company based in Bognor they employ an even more delightful company based in Birmingham and Southampton to manage the block. They have decided that our garage block needs the roof replacing they have obtained three quotes from building firms based in Havent, Southampton and Christchurch. They have decided to use the latter claiming they have been unable to source a local building firm to do the work. When questioned as to why they have chosen a company 120 miles away they have simply told us no local firms were recommended when they first wrote to us about the work. This is simply not true as at least 3 firms were suggested by residents. Unsurprisingly the 3 quotes for the work were astronomical as the management company take a 10% cut for their trouble. Clearly none of the builders have inspected the site as one claimed it was grade two listed (garage block built early eighties!). All 9 leaseholders have written to complain about the choice of contractors and their charges I finally got a reply saying my concerns had been noted yesterday 21 days after my original email and another resident got a similar email last week leaving 7 flat owners not to even have their email acknowledged.

The positive from all this is that it's meant the 9 flat owners have got together and all have refused to pay a bean before the management company have obtained three more quotes from local firms. As a group we've gone out and obtained one quote so far and have two more on the way and surprise surprise the quote came in under half of what had been quoted by the three from Hampshire.

We're also looking into ideally buying the freehold but having read up on that it seems it is a lengthy and drawn out process which would cost a ton in legal fees so may not be feasible financially. Right to manage on the other hand sounds very achievable from what I've read. My question to the good folk of NSC is have any of you gone through either process? Obviously buying the freehold would require a lot of legal advice but I've read conflicting reports whether it's worth getting a solicitor for RTM?

Any advice or recommendations of companies to use would be gratefully received.

http://www.lease-advice.org/advice-guide/right-to-manage/

The fact that all nine of you are on board makes it a whole lot easier.
 


Tom Hark Preston Park

Will Post For Cash
Jul 6, 2003
70,138
Would strongly recommend all nine of you beg, borrow or steal the money to buy the freehold if you have the option to do so. It's not nearly as long, drawn out or expensive as you might imagine, it'll always add value to your property, you can form a residents limited company and be masters of your own destiny when it comes to prioritising work, getting quotes etc. My block of flats did exactly that about a dozen years ago and it's about the smartest thing we ever did. Go for it! :thumbsup:
 


Guinness Boy

Tofu eating wokerati
Helpful Moderator
NSC Patron
Jul 23, 2003
34,088
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
Anyone on here have any experience of either issuing a right to manage to a freeholder or attempting buy a freehold?

Long story short, I live in a block of 9 flats all leasehold in Crowborough. The freeholder is a delightful company based in Bognor they employ an even more delightful company based in Birmingham and Southampton to manage the block. They have decided that our garage block needs the roof replacing they have obtained three quotes from building firms based in Havent, Southampton and Christchurch. They have decided to use the latter claiming they have been unable to source a local building firm to do the work. When questioned as to why they have chosen a company 120 miles away they have simply told us no local firms were recommended when they first wrote to us about the work. This is simply not true as at least 3 firms were suggested by residents. Unsurprisingly the 3 quotes for the work were astronomical as the management company take a 10% cut for their trouble. Clearly none of the builders have inspected the site as one claimed it was grade two listed (garage block built early eighties!). All 9 leaseholders have written to complain about the choice of contractors and their charges I finally got a reply saying my concerns had been noted yesterday 21 days after my original email and another resident got a similar email last week leaving 7 flat owners not to even have their email acknowledged.

The positive from all this is that it's meant the 9 flat owners have got together and all have refused to pay a bean before the management company have obtained three more quotes from local firms. As a group we've gone out and obtained one quote so far and have two more on the way and surprise surprise the quote came in under half of what had been quoted by the three from Hampshire.

We're also looking into ideally buying the freehold but having read up on that it seems it is a lengthy and drawn out process which would cost a ton in legal fees so may not be feasible financially. Right to manage on the other hand sounds very achievable from what I've read. My question to the good folk of NSC is have any of you gone through either process? Obviously buying the freehold would require a lot of legal advice but I've read conflicting reports whether it's worth getting a solicitor for RTM?

Any advice or recommendations of companies to use would be gratefully received.

You could initially look to take the Freeholder to a First Tier Tribunal (Property) https://www.gov.uk/courts-tribunals/first-tier-tribunal-property-chamber

These used to be called LVTs. Back in the day we took a delightful Mr Scrivens to one over his treatment of our Brighton flat. We ended up buying the freehold though my wife dealt with most of it as the flat was legally in her name. I can ask her what she remembers. My mum also owns her freehold. You'll probably have to form a company between the nine of you to purchase it but it you are all on board, as stated above, that's a good start. You will also add value to the flat by purchasing share of Freehold.

I'll ask the Mrs what she remembers of the process (we are going back to 2001) when she's back and PM you anything relevant.
 


Tim Over Whelmed

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 24, 2007
10,183
Arundel
Would strongly recommend all nine of you beg, borrow or steal the money to buy the freehold if you have the option to do so. It's not nearly as long, drawn out or expensive as you might imagine, it'll always add value to your property, you can form a residents limited company and be masters of your own destiny when it comes to prioritising work, getting quotes etc. My block of flats did exactly that about a dozen years ago and it's about the smartest thing we ever did. Go for it! :thumbsup:

Agree with this although back in the early 90's we also had to employ an auditor as we discovered we'd built up a contengency fund that was legally ours and it had dwindled by 90% in the months it took us to get everything in place. I understand it's more transparent and easier now, we were only able to do it as they wanted to shift it as much as we wanted to buy it.
 




Tom Hark Preston Park

Will Post For Cash
Jul 6, 2003
70,138
You could initially look to take the Freeholder to a First Tier Tribunal (Property) https://www.gov.uk/courts-tribunals/first-tier-tribunal-property-chamber

These used to be called LVTs. Back in the day we took a delightful Mr Scrivens to one over his treatment of our Brighton flat. We ended up buying the freehold though my wife dealt with most of it as the flat was legally in her name. I can ask her what she remembers. My mum also owns her freehold. You'll probably have to form a company between the nine of you to purchase it but it you are all on board, as stated above, that's a good start. You will also add value to the flat by purchasing share of Freehold.

I'll ask the Mrs what she remembers of the process (we are going back to 2001) when she's back and PM you anything relevant.

Happy to PM OP also, if you need a hand with the nuts and bolts. Our freehold buyout took place in 2002. There's certain obligations in forming a freeholders limited company, but they're far from scary, and maybe involve a small number of straightforward hours paperwork a YEAR.
 


Arthur

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2003
8,553
Buxted Harbour
Would strongly recommend all nine of you beg, borrow or steal the money to buy the freehold if you have the option to do so. It's not nearly as long, drawn out or expensive as you might imagine, it'll always add value to your property, you can form a residents limited company and be masters of your own destiny when it comes to prioritising work, getting quotes etc. My block of flats did exactly that about a dozen years ago and it's about the smartest thing we ever did. Go for it!

Thanks.

The actual purchase of the freehold wouldn't be that expensive (between £2-3k per property) from the research I've done. It's the legal expenses that worry me if the current freeholder chooses to take the request to court which having done some research on the company I assume they would.

Can you remember who you used all those years ago?
 


Aug 11, 2003
2,728
The Open Market
Any advice or recommendations of companies to use would be gratefully received.

Getting yourselves a solicitor may well be advisable.

Knowing that they cost a bomb generally, I tend to look for Friends of the Albion first. There's only one solicitor listed within their directory, but in the past, I've approached a solicitor through FotA, and having let them know I'm a Brighton fan - and that I heard about them through FotA - does at least get you some (free) advice.

http://www.friendsofthealbion.co.uk/business/warrens-law-and-advocacy
 




Arthur

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2003
8,553
Buxted Harbour
I'll ask the Mrs what she remembers of the process (we are going back to 2001) when she's back and PM you anything relevant.

Cheers Jay.

Happy to PM OP also, if you need a hand with the nuts and bolts. Our freehold buyout took place in 2002. There's certain obligations in forming a freeholders limited company, but they're far from scary, and maybe involve a small number of straightforward hours paperwork a YEAR.

Yes please if you wouldn't mind.

Agree with this although back in the early 90's we also had to employ an auditor as we discovered we'd built up a contengency fund that was legally ours and it had dwindled by 90% in the months it took us to get everything in place. I understand it's more transparent and easier now, we were only able to do it as they wanted to shift it as much as we wanted to buy it.

We have £12k in ours and a £5k surplus. We haven't contacted the freeholder as yet to let them know we're conversing with one another for the reason you mention.
 


Tom Hark Preston Park

Will Post For Cash
Jul 6, 2003
70,138
Thanks.

The actual purchase of the freehold wouldn't be that expensive (between £2-3k per property) from the research I've done. It's the legal expenses that worry me if the current freeholder chooses to take the request to court which having done some research on the company I assume they would.

Can you remember who you used all those years ago?

Well, as I've been default treasurer for our freeholders limited company of six flats for yonks, I've dug out the paperwork easy enough. What i'd say is:

a) your quoted purchase price for freehold of the property - between £2-3k per property - is allowing for inflation roughly in line with what we paid per flat (£1300 in 2002) to purchase the freehold

b) we used a local brighton firm which would probably have no meaning to you in Buxted Harbour. T%hink we might have got a bit of mate's rates through a solicitor that one of the flat owners knew, but the letter is headed 'Solicitors and Commisioners for Oaths' which I'm thinking might just be a bog standard solicitor. The final invoice in our case including all the title deed/ land registry stuff came to £1,400, split six ways in our case. Bear in mind these are 2002 prices, so they'd be bit higher now, tho maybe not massively so. In your case they'd also be split nine ways. Couple of hundred quid each?

c) to form a limited company used to cost about £140 when we started in 2002. Again, without looking it up, it wouldn't be that much more now. you'd have to appoint directors and a treasurer

d) you'd have to interact with Companies House twice a year, once to complete an annual Return listing the directors and treasurer of your limited company and once to complete a simple annual accounts spreadsheet, which is just a list of monies in and monies out and a bit of standard legalese at the bottom that you can easily copy and paste.

Seriously, sounds a bit scary up front, but once you get it up and running it's a piece of piss and well worth doing.
 


Greyrun

New member
Feb 23, 2009
1,074
Agree with Tom Hark, our freeholder wanted to build on top of our block so we all got together and bought him out, as stated it was not overly expensive or complicated.
 


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