Fingerprint scanners at work

Bakero · Jun 14, 2016

My company is planning to implement a new policy that necessitates signing in and out of work using a fingerprint scanner. They're bringing this in as the Spanish government want to keep a close eye on the hours worked to prevent companies from having people work extra hours unpaid as this is both unfair to the workers and also a problem for the state, which doesn't collect as much tax as it should. Currently, it's thought that 3.5 million hours are worked unpaid in Spain each week.

So ostensibly the policy is there to protect workers. However, I'm fundamentally against giving my fingerprint as it seems intrusive.

I've been emailing back and forth with my boss and colleagues all morning whilst wading through EU data protection laws. This policy has been brought in without staff consultation and we were informed this morning that we need to sign a form giving our consent. I should mention that I work in school not a high risk site such as a nuclear power plant.

Has anyone else experienced this? Am I being unreasonable in not wanting to give a fingerprint?

bhanutz · Jun 14, 2016

Why are you so against it? Are you against having ID cards? Are you just being awkward for the sake of being awkward?

Tricky Dicky · Jun 14, 2016

Seems a bit OTT, but I would guess the old saying "if you have nothing to hide...". Wouldn't bother me much.

Gwylan · Jun 14, 2016

bhanutz said:
Why are you so against it? Are you against having ID cards? Are you just being awkward for the sake of being awkward?

Yeah,don't see the problem. At my last few workplaces, I've been given a key fob/card to get through security doors. Not sure why this is very different.

My daughter has this system for her school lunches: good way of working, less chance of being robbed of your dinner money

hans kraay fan club · Jun 14, 2016

Wouldn't bother me in the slightest. What's the problem?

Goldstone1976 · Jun 14, 2016

Bakero said:
My company is planning to implement a new policy that necessitates signing in and out of work using a fingerprint scanner. They're bringing this in as the Spanish government want to keep a close eye on the hours worked to prevent companies from having people work extra hours unpaid as this is both unfair to the workers and also a problem for the state, which doesn't collect as much tax as it should. Currently, it's thought that 3.5 million hours are worked unpaid in Spain each week.

So ostensibly the policy is there to protect workers. However, I'm fundamentally against giving my fingerprint as it seems intrusive.

I've been emailing back and forth with my boss and colleagues all morning whilst wading through EU data protection laws. This policy has been brought in without staff consultation and we were informed this morning that we need to sign a form giving our consent. I should mention that I work in school not a high risk site such as a nuclear power plant.

Has anyone else experienced this? Am I being unreasonable in not wanting to give a fingerprint?

One place I worked had retinal scan entry - that was a secure site though.

Two places have introduced finger print entry. It:

1 Provides clarity about who is on site, when - with all the attendant benefits and disbenefits
2 Prevents people losing their entry cards/tags/dongles
3 Is fantastic at preventing unauthorised entry (providing staff are diligent about tailgating, which most are not, in my experience)

and

4 Went down like a cup of cold sick initially, but is simply accepted now.

Tricky Dicky · Jun 14, 2016

Thinking about it, most places have electronic door tags now, so it's no different - only more secure.

Postman Pat · Jun 14, 2016

Gwylan said:
My daughter has this system for her school lunches: good way of working, less chance of being robbed of your dinner money

Same with my son. The fingerprints are not stored by the school, but by an external company, and are digitised so couldn't be used if the company got hacked for example.

Bakero · Jun 14, 2016

Goldstone1976 said:
One place I worked had retinal scan entry - that was a secure site though.

Two places have introduced finger print entry. It:

1 Provides clarity about who is on site, when - with all the attendant benefits and disbenefits
2 Prevents people losing their entry cards/tags/dongles
3 Is fantastic at preventing unauthorised entry (providing staff are diligent about tailgating, which most are not, in my experience)

and

4 Went down like a cup of cold sick initially, but is simply accepted now.

The thing is it's not related to access. It requires going to work, planning, marking, doing admin, then giving a print to say im going to class then another when i leave class.

It just seems excessive and legal precedent appears to agree with me.

Horton's halftime iceberg · Jun 14, 2016

The EU are currently implementing The General Data Protection Regulation. It comes in any day, but has a two year period before it comes into play for enforcement to allow companies to get up and running with it. But their will be bigger fines and set compensation coming in for companies that do not comply with it. UK Law already has us very competitive with the new rules.

Finger prints are classed as sensitive data, the company must explain to you, how this data will be used, who has access to it and what they are doing to keep it safe, I imagine that you will ask to/or have already signed some consent.

The company that has sold it installed it may have advised the company and may have details about how it works and how it is secure.

The Albion Roar · Jun 14, 2016

Can you explain what you mean by 'intrusive' (the one reason you've given)?

Assuming it serves one purpose (entry and exit to your office), and isn't used for any nefarious purposes, nor used by a third party (the Spanish equivalent of the Data Protection Act, I'd guess), I'm not sure what your concern is.

Goldstone1976 · Jun 14, 2016

Bakero said:
The thing is it's not related to access. It requires going to work, planning, marking, doing admin, then giving a print to say im going to class then another when i leave class.

It just seems excessive and legal precedent appears to agree with me.

So, you need to give a scan just before you see kids and again to confirm that you're no longer seeing them? Is that right? Perhaps then, it's a way of monitoring who has had access to kids at what time just in case something really bad happens??

Bakero · Jun 14, 2016

The Albion Roar said:
Can you explain what you mean by 'intrusive' (the one reason you've given)?

Assuming it serves one purpose (entry and exit to your office), and isn't used for any nefarious purposes, nor used by a third party (the Spanish equivalent of the Data Protection Act, I'd guess), I'm not sure what your concern is.

It's not for entry/exit. It's to monitor hours worked.

It's intrusive as they are seeking to store my biometric data. My main gripe is that it's unnecessary.

Bakero · Jun 14, 2016

Goldstone1976 said:
So, you need to give a scan just before you see kids and again to confirm that you're no longer seeing them? Is that right? Perhaps then, it's a way of monitoring who has had access to kids at what time just in case something really bad happens??

Nope. I mainly teach adults. It's to monitor hours worked. Ostensibly to ensure employees are being paid correctly.

beorhthelm · Jun 14, 2016

Bakero said:
So ostensibly the policy is there to protect workers. However, I'm fundamentally against giving my fingerprint as it seems intrusive.

your employer will have your NI (equivalent), salary information, bank details, address, next of kin, DOB, your academic and professional career on record. a finger print scan is not particularly intrusive now is it?

though im mot sure how it "proves" you are working/not working, the company can manipulate the time logs of when you entered/left. not really sure why they couldn't do with simple pass cards which are probably more reliable and slightly easier to replace if there's a problem.

Goldstone1976 · Jun 14, 2016

Bakero said:
Nope. I mainly teach adults. It's to monitor hours worked. Ostensibly to ensure employees are being paid correctly.

Yep, you said that in your OP; I must have misunderstood what you meant in post 9. Apologies.

Finger print entry simply to record hours does seem overkill for a company. However, you also say that the government are worried about tax take. If that's the "real" driver here, then I can see that the tax office would want to ensure that they knew the identity of whoever is clocking in and out. A card/tag/dongle can be transferred between people (much like an Albion ST); a fingerprint? Not so much.

PB - are you reading this? Stop right now.

Horton's halftime iceberg · Jun 14, 2016

Bakero said:
It's not for entry/exit. It's to monitor hours worked.

It's intrusive as they are seeking to store my biometric data. My main gripe is that it's unnecessary.

Yes it seems excessive on one level, but this is modern technology and it becoming affordable, its really about what the information will be used for, as lots of companies sell on data to make more money. You must ensure you opt out of anything like this, the problem comes is if the companies make this a condition of employment.

You are then stuck between a rock and a hard place and have to bite the bullet and just ensure they keep your data safe and secure.

If not the new law with help you pursue this, under UK law you can request a Subject Access Request (companies can charge you up to 10 pounds admin fee). They are bound to send you any data held on you (e-mails, call recordings, documents you may be mentioned in) where it came from and what they have done with it, unless you are under an official investigation they then do not have to supply it to prevent what is known as tipping off (the police can request it without your knowledge in the UK).

This is one way of ensuring your data is only being used for the correct purposes.

KZNSeagull · Jun 14, 2016

I was very surprised when I came here that I had to give my fingerprints in order to receive a South African ID book, which are mandatory. We also have thumbprints scanned at the bank when collecting credit cards etc. It's main purpose is to try to eliminate identity theft and fraud and according to Wiki, it is the largest citizen identification database in the world. It is not accessed by the police apparently, but the time will come when it will be.

As long as you know exactly the reasons why they need to use it and what they will do with your fingerprint, there should not be a problem.

Horton's halftime iceberg · Jun 14, 2016

KZNSeagull said:
I was very surprised when I came here that I had to give my fingerprints in order to receive a South African ID book, which are mandatory. We also have thumbprints scanned at the bank when collecting credit cards etc. It's main purpose is to try to eliminate identity theft and fraud and according to Wiki, it is the largest citizen identification database in the world. It is not accessed by the police apparently, but the time will come when it will be.

As long as you know exactly the reasons why they need to use it and what they will do with your fingerprint, there should not be a problem.

In the UK if the merchant i.e shop takes you fingerprint I believe the bank has to refund them if the transaction is later shown to be fraud. You don't see it much and even less now chip and pin and contactless put more onus on the Banks to refund.

Charlies Shinpad · Jun 14, 2016

Most big building sites have this now using "If there is a fire on site scenario" but they use it to check your time sheets and are quick to deny it when asked to there faces

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