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Fresh Rail Strike ballot



Chicken Run

Member Since Jul 2003
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jul 17, 2003
18,215
Valley of Hangleton
So Govia who run the Thameslink and Southern Franchises have balloted their staff, amongst the horrific ideas to improve service are longer trains and moving staff from behind the blinds in the ticket office out onto the concourses to help more passengers. Why would we want longer trains with more seats and more interaction with ticket staff?
 

darkwolf666

Well-known member
Nov 8, 2015
7,575
Sittingbourne, Kent
So Govia who run the Thameslink and Southern Franchises have balloted their staff, amongst the horrific ideas to improve service are longer trains and moving staff from behind the blinds in the ticket office out onto the concourses to help more passengers. Why would we want longer trains with more seats and more interaction with ticket staff?

So they can sell tickets at inflated prices from the machines on the station, machines that don't automatically give you the best deal, unlike the ticket staff who generally know what they are talking about!

Oh, and longer trains are only good if you have long(er) platforms!
 

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,239
i have some sympathy on this one as the ticket office closure is obviously a percursor to cutting over all staffing. it makes no sense to say you need more staff on the platform, when most the time peoples only interaction is to get a ticket or enquire when the next train is. both can be adequately performed from behind the counter. once you move the staff to the platform, you have more people than you currently need... so you'll look at that redundant staffing and cut it. unlike their tube cousins, i've always found the rail counter staff to be helpful.
 

ForestRowSeagull

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2011
949
Now Brixton
i have some sympathy on this one as the ticket office closure is obviously a percursor to cutting over all staffing. it makes no sense to say you need more staff on the platform, when most the time peoples only interaction is to get a ticket or enquire when the next train is. both can be adequately performed from behind the counter. once you move the staff to the platform, you have more people than you currently need... so you'll look at that redundant staffing and cut it. unlike their tube cousins, i've always found the rail counter staff to be helpful.

This. I've only ever had very good customer service from the people in the booths, would be a shame for them to go, especially for those who struggle to use the machines.
 


Tom Hark Preston Park

Will Post For Cash
Jul 6, 2003
69,789
So Govia who run the Thameslink and Southern Franchises have balloted their staff, amongst the horrific ideas to improve service are longer trains and moving staff from behind the blinds in the ticket office out onto the concourses to help more passengers. Why would we want longer trains with more seats and more interaction with ticket staff?

Why would we want longer trains with fewer guards and more interaction with overcharging ticket machines?
 

CHAPPERS

DISCO SPENG
Jul 5, 2003
44,749
This. I've only ever had very good customer service from the people in the booths, would be a shame for them to go, especially for those who struggle to use the machines.

Quite. We had excellent customer service on Saturday WITH A SMILE when buying a ticket from a human as opposed to the machine that was only giving us the option of paying a tenner over the odds of what we knew if SHOULD be. Those machines are a ****ing disgrace and anyone who didn't know the approximate cost would have been ripped off.
 

ForestRowSeagull

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2011
949
Now Brixton
Quite. We had excellent customer service on Saturday WITH A SMILE when buying a ticket from a human as opposed to the machine that was only giving us the option of paying a tenner over the odds of what we knew if SHOULD be. Those machines are a ****ing disgrace and anyone who didn't know the approximate cost would have been ripped off.

Dont get me wrong, everything else about the rail network in the area frustrates the life out of me but the staff in the booths are always extremely helpful. To be fair I rarely use the machines as I have a season ticket but I would worry about an elderly person being able to use one, given on the few times i've used them I found them frustratingly confusing. The people in the booths can also process all my delay repay claims!
 


Ernest

Stupid IDIOT
Nov 8, 2003
42,739
LOONEY BIN
So Govia who run the Thameslink and Southern Franchises have balloted their staff, amongst the horrific ideas to improve service are longer trains and moving staff from behind the blinds in the ticket office out onto the concourses to help more passengers. Why would we want longer trains with more seats and more interaction with ticket staff?

When there is an incident on your longer train and there is nobody to help you then you might understand why or maybe if you are old enough to work which I don't think you are and your boss came in and told you that you were SURPLUS to requirements then you may think that is a tad out of order.

Then again you are so stupid you probably wouldn't.
 




Deadly Danson

Well-known member
Oct 22, 2003
3,922
Brighton
It is important to note that this dispute has nothing whatsoever to do with pay or anyone wanting to do less work. GTR are systematically shredding as much of the workforce as they can-catering staff, cleaners, ticket office staff, guards. This is firstly about ensuring safety on trains - is anyone here happy that the only person on a 12 coach train who can answer a query, deal with a violent, sick or abusive passengers, safely evacuate a train when needed or deal with any kind of emergency situation is the driver at the front who frankly has plenty of other safety critical duties to attend to? It is also far far safer for guards, halfway down the train, to safely dispatch a service ensuring that drunk, infirm or stupid members of the public are not stuck in the doors rather than a driver looking at some dodgy cctv screens.
GTR maintain that the new 12 Gatwick Express coach trains offer a premium service - nonsense. These trains may be new but they offer no additional luggage space, have hard back seats and, if boarding at Gatwick, every other train will be full of people from Brighton. I would venture to suggest that a premium service should at least have one member of train crew to assist passengers?
Again, no one is asking for more money or to do less work-this is about protecting public safety, offering decent customer service and protecting colleagues jobs as well as conforming to the laid down terms and conditions that have been signed up to-namely that no more than 10 coach trains should be driver only except during disruption.
I would also point out that guards on Thameslink were turned into on train hosts and now don't exist, the same happened to Gatwick Express guards so if anyone thinks removing guards safety critical responsibilities and making them "on train supervisors" won't ultimately result in their jobs going is deluded.
I know unions have a bad press but on this occasion they are standing up for some frankly shocking behaviour by GTR.
 

Ken Newbury

Active member
Feb 6, 2006
426
1/2 mile from LDC country
The bit I don't understand is that the new GX trains are the same length as the existing Southern and TL 12 carriage trains and only 14 metres longer than the existing GX trains, so why all this fuss over a new train that's the same length as existing 12 carriage trains and only 40 feet longer than the trains that GX drivers currently drive?
 

Ernest

Stupid IDIOT
Nov 8, 2003
42,739
LOONEY BIN
The bit I don't understand is that the new GX trains are the same length as the existing Southern and TL 12 carriage trains and only 14 metres longer than the existing GX trains, so why all this fuss over a new train that's the same length as existing 12 carriage trains and only 40 feet longer than the trains that GX drivers currently drive?

Because existing 12 coach trains on have guards the new ones don't, walk 40 feet and then you'll see how much longer that it. GTR are provoking industrial action throughout the work force and the rail unions will not stand by and let them
 

DataPoint

Well-known member
Mar 31, 2015
432
It is important to note that this dispute has nothing whatsoever to do with pay or anyone wanting to do less work. GTR are systematically shredding as much of the workforce as they can-catering staff, cleaners, ticket office staff, guards. This is firstly about ensuring safety on trains - is anyone here happy that the only person on a 12 coach train who can answer a query, deal with a violent, sick or abusive passengers, safely evacuate a train when needed or deal with any kind of emergency situation is the driver at the front who frankly has plenty of other safety critical duties to attend to? It is also far far safer for guards, halfway down the train, to safely dispatch a service ensuring that drunk, infirm or stupid members of the public are not stuck in the doors rather than a driver looking at some dodgy cctv screens.
GTR maintain that the new 12 Gatwick Express coach trains offer a premium service - nonsense. These trains may be new but they offer no additional luggage space, have hard back seats and, if boarding at Gatwick, every other train will be full of people from Brighton. I would venture to suggest that a premium service should at least have one member of train crew to assist passengers?
Again, no one is asking for more money or to do less work-this is about protecting public safety, offering decent customer service and protecting colleagues jobs as well as conforming to the laid down terms and conditions that have been signed up to-namely that no more than 10 coach trains should be driver only except during disruption.
I would also point out that guards on Thameslink were turned into on train hosts and now don't exist, the same happened to Gatwick Express guards so if anyone thinks removing guards safety critical responsibilities and making them "on train supervisors" won't ultimately result in their jobs going is deluded.
I know unions have a bad press but on this occasion they are standing up for some frankly shocking behaviour by GTR.

Jeremy wants to run the trains! How do you feel about that?
 


Ken Newbury

Active member
Feb 6, 2006
426
1/2 mile from LDC country
Because existing 12 coach trains on have guards the new ones don't, walk 40 feet and then you'll see how much longer that it. GTR are provoking industrial action throughout the work force and the rail unions will not stand by and let them

Thanks for clarifying, I agree 40 feet is a fair distance but surely not in the context of just 40 feet on an already bloody long train, it's about half a carriage or so isn't it?

So they do currently drive the equivalent of an 11.5 carriage train without a guard now but refuse to drive a 12 carriage train?
 

Deadly Danson

Well-known member
Oct 22, 2003
3,922
Brighton
Because existing 12 coach trains on have guards the new ones don't, walk 40 feet and then you'll see how much longer that it. GTR are provoking industrial action throughout the work force and the rail unions will not stand by and let them

Absolutely this - plus I would add it's the thin end of the wedge, it's been this progressive creeping of the length and amount of driver only operated trains that has allowed this situation to get to this point. I would personally argue that the existing 10 and 12 coach trains that run driver only are inherently unsafe and the unions and drivers should never have agreed to it in the first place. As with all disasters it will only take one serious incident for everyone to realise how unsafe this is (and always has been) and just because a major fire or public disorder hasn't yet taken place in coach 11 of a 12 coach train thus far with major casualties, it doesn't mean this will never happen. Say a lone woman was sitting in coach 11 late in the evening and was attacked - even if she could raise the alarm, by the time the driver has taken the call, found a safe place to stop, contacted the signaller, shut down the cab and walked the length of the train it could be too late. At the very least the presence of a guard would act as a deterrent.
 

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