Zero-hours contracts have been banned in New Zealand

Herr Tubthumper · Mar 14, 2016

"Politicians from across the spectrum voted to outlaw the practice of hiring worker with no guarantee of minimum hours" - why can't the UK do this?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...have-been-banned-in-new-zealand-a6925246.html

darkwolf666 · Mar 14, 2016

Herr Tubthumper said:
"Politicians from across the spectrum voted to outlaw the practice of hiring worker with no guarantee of minimum hours" - why can't the UK do this?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...have-been-banned-in-new-zealand-a6925246.html

Couldn't agree more - they are an abomination to the working man and an unbelievable opportunity for the bosses to make the workers kowtow to them for fear of loss of hours!

bn1&bn3 Albion · Mar 14, 2016

It's a shame that most employers take the p*ss out of these contracts. I had one at the Brighton Centre and found it extremely useful. I worked 2 other jobs but if I ever need any extra cash I could always call up and get a few extra shifts.

beorhthelm · Mar 14, 2016

Herr Tubthumper said:
"Politicians from across the spectrum voted to outlaw the practice of hiring worker with no guarantee of minimum hours" - why can't the UK do this?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...have-been-banned-in-new-zealand-a6925246.html

because we want to allow employers and employees to have flexible working arrangements? incredibly short sighted to just ban a type of contract that works well for most, so well in fact Labour councils and unions use them widely. must laugh at the TUC research in the article, of course part time work on average take home less than full time.

i wonder if those opposed to zero hours are aware that the last government did actually address many of the related problems, such as exclusivity? went under the radar, but there were a handful of practices outlawed.

Herr Tubthumper · Mar 14, 2016

beorhthelm said:
because we want to allow employers and employees to have flexible working arrangements? incredibly short sighted to just ban a type of contract that works well for most, so well in fact Labour councils and unions use them widely. must laugh at the TUC research in the article, of course part time work on average take home less than full time.

i wonder if those opposed to zero hours are aware that the last government did actually address many of the related problems, such as exclusivity? went under the radar, but there were a handful of practices outlawed.

They work well, but for employers only. I see very few benefits and plenty of abuse for employees.

Luke93 · Mar 14, 2016

They're not absolutley flexible for the employee, they're fexlible for the employer becusse it's at their discretion when someone works. Part time contracts can be just as flexible with a good employer, but guarantee a minimum number of hours.

beorhthelm · Mar 14, 2016

Herr Tubthumper said:
They work well, but for employers only. I see very few benefits and plenty of abuse for employees.

see post above mine. i've had "zero hours" before they were called that, used to be simply casual work. students, single parents, retired to name a few groups benefit. we've been over this topic before and many people spoke of the benefits to them. just because some employers abuse them with additional restrictions and practices, doesnt mean the principle is to be thrown away. and what will a zero hours be replaced by, a flimsy 1 hour contract? address the poor practice instead.

One Love · Mar 14, 2016

So what is, for example, a cafe owner whose business is outside tables supposed to do? Pay all employees when it rains and he has no customers. He would go out of business.

I agree they are abused by some employers but for the purpose they were brought in for they can mean the difference between having a business and not.

Ninja Elephant · Mar 14, 2016

beorhthelm said:
see post above mine. i've had "zero hours" before they were called that, used to be simply casual work. students, single parents, retired to name a few groups benefit. we've been over this topic before and many people spoke of the benefits to them. just because some employers abuse them with additional restrictions and practices, doesnt mean the principle is to be thrown away. and what will a zero hours be replaced by, a flimsy 1 hour contract? address the poor practice instead.

I completely agree with this. Not everybody loses out with a zero hours contract, there are some people who need one, for their circumstances. It's too broad a subject to call for a blanket ban on zero hours contracts but if there are employers who are abusing the system, that should be what is investigated and stopped.

As someone who relies on full time employment, I couldn't live with a zero hours contract and there are many people who are in a similar position, but there are many people who these contracts suit and that is the point so far as I am concerned. One policy doesn't fit all circumstances.

Triggaaar · Mar 14, 2016

Herr Tubthumper said:
They work well, but for employers only. I see very few benefits and plenty of abuse for employees.

I've done a bit of research into this, and found first hand testimony to the contrary, two posts above yours:

bn1&bn3 Albion said:
I had one at the Brighton Centre and found it extremely useful. I worked 2 other jobs but if I ever need any extra cash I could always call up and get a few extra shifts.

Doc Lynam · Mar 14, 2016

As I've said before, a zero hours contract is not a contract.

alfredmizen · Mar 14, 2016

One Love said:
So what is, for example, a cafe owner whose business is outside tables supposed to do? Pay all employees when it rains and he has no customers. He would go out of business.

I agree they are abused by some employers but for the purpose they were brought in for they can mean the difference between having a business and not.

Install table parasols/umbrellas ? Not be silly enough to start a business that relies on our climate ? I've said it before and it pains me to say it again , we could and should learn a lot from the Germans , Its taken me a while but I've come to realise what an awful system ''anglo saxon capitalism'' really is , under it literally everything seems to be pared to the bone in the quest for profit, the germans seem to run a decent capitalist system without exploiting people , we could even learn from the french, ive just got back from a weekend in Lyon, decent public transport, all the chain stores closed on the sunday ( they do radical things like spend time with family)
we really dont NEED to buy clothes on a sunday afternoon, and i'm pretty sure that the french have just handed google a well deserved whopping tax bill.

Bob! · Mar 14, 2016

Herr Tubthumper said:
They work well, but for employers only. I see very few benefits and plenty of abuse for employees.

Triggaaar said:
I've done a bit of research into this, and found first hand testimony to the contrary, two posts above yours:

I've also done a similar amount of research that seems to corroborate the original statement.

Bold Seagull · Mar 14, 2016

One Love said:
So what is, for example, a cafe owner whose business is outside tables supposed to do? Pay all employees when it rains and he has no customers. He would go out of business.

I agree they are abused by some employers but for the purpose they were brought in for they can mean the difference between having a business and not.

There are alternatives to flexible / part time / casual working than zero hour contracts. I've had plenty of bar & service jobs in which we agreed flexible hours, but I was never on a zero hour contract.

Herr Tubthumper · Mar 14, 2016

Bob! said:
I've also done a similar amount of research that seems to corroborate the original statement.

Yes, you're correct. The wide spread abuse of these bonded slavery deals is wiped out because it works for one person. My bad.

Jim D · Mar 14, 2016

So, if you have a firm part-time contract for, say, 14 hours per week will you be given a slot when you have to work them or would you be able to agree with the employer when you go in? Also, what could happen to the employee if they don't work the hours? Could they be sacked if they can't prove they were sick? I can see a lot of people with other work to do being pushed out of this sort of contract (ie students, single parents, people with a main job looking for extra cash) because it doesn't suit them.

Herr Tubthumper · Mar 14, 2016

One Love said:
So what is, for example, a cafe owner whose business is outside tables supposed to do? Pay all employees when it rains and he has no customers. He would go out of business.

Does your hypothetical cafe owner not have an indoors?

pb21 · Mar 14, 2016

Zero hour contacts can clearly be used, and are used, to exploit people. However there will be a minority for who zero hour contacts benefits both the employee and the employer. So I am not sure banning them is the best solution.

Moshe Gariani · Mar 14, 2016

alfredmizen said:
Install table parasols/umbrellas ? Not be silly enough to start a business that relies on our climate ? I've said it before and it pains me to say it again , we could and should learn a lot from the Germans , Its taken me a while but I've come to realise what an awful system ''anglo saxon capitalism'' really is , under it literally everything seems to be pared to the bone in the quest for profit, the germans seem to run a decent capitalist system without exploiting people , we could even learn from the french, ive just got back from a weekend in Lyon, decent public transport, all the chain stores closed on the sunday ( they do radical things like spend time with family)
we really dont NEED to buy clothes on a sunday afternoon, and i'm pretty sure that the french have just handed google a well deserved whopping tax bill.

Both the German and French socio-political systems are undoubtedly very different to ours.

Much of what you refer to concerning less obvious consumerism and profiteering (Americanisation?) seems to be extremely attractive and apparently evident in both France and Germany.

Herr Tubthumper · Mar 14, 2016

Jim D said:
So, if you have a firm part-time contract for, say, 14 hours per week will you be given a slot when you have to work them or would you be able to agree with the employer when you go in? Also, what could happen to the employee if they don't work the hours? Could they be sacked if they can't prove they were sick? I can see a lot of people with other work to do being pushed out of this sort of contract (ie students, single parents, people with a main job looking for extra cash) because it doesn't suit them.

I am sure you can still have flexibility on all other elements.....just that you're guaranteed a set amount/minimum hours

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