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Employment Law Specialists.



M

Munkfish

Well-known member
May 1, 2006
11,871
Recently I have been informed my role of 8 years is no longer needed by the company I work for. These things happen, I am due a fairly nice pay out and I am happy to move on.

However there are two people who do my role one based in another location, however my role was selected over his due to the fact the business decided we did separate roles. However we both have the same job description and are the same level essentially doing the same Job but in a different location.

In my mind the company I work for should have made this a 2 into 1 redundancy pool, this has not happened and as such I feel I have been treated more than a little unfairly.

I am currently a week away from the appeals process however the company I work for still haven't held their hands up and said we have done this wrong.

Is there anyone on here who has any experience in Employment law etc I would be happy to pay to speak to someone if that was what is needed.

Any help or thoughts on this would be great.

Cheers.
 




Paul Reids Sock

Paul Reids Sock

Well-known member
Nov 3, 2004
4,458
Paul Reids boot
I would have a look through here:

https://www.gov.uk/redundant-your-rights/being-selected-for-redundancy

However this line would suggest that you at least have a right to ask, even if they can provide reasons why

'Your employer can make you redundant without having to follow a selection process if your job no longer exists, eg if:

your employer is closing down a whole operation in a company and making all the employees working in it redundant
you’re the only employee in your part of the organisation'
 


Westdene Seagull

Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Patron
Oct 27, 2003
21,005
The arse end of Hangleton
Munkfish said:
Recently I have been informed my role of 8 years is no longer needed by the company I work for. These things happen, I am due a fairly nice pay out and I am happy to move on.

However there are two people who do my role one based in another location, however my role was selected over his due to the fact the business decided we did separate roles. However we both have the same job description and are the same level essentially doing the same Job but in a different location.

In my mind the company I work for should have made this a 2 into 1 redundancy pool, this has not happened and as such I feel I have been treated more than a little unfairly.

I am currently a week away from the appeals process however the company I work for still haven't held their hands up and said we have done this wrong.

Is there anyone on here who has any experience in Employment law etc I would be happy to pay to speak to someone if that was what is needed.

Any help or thoughts on this would be great.

Cheers.
Click to expand...

Get some help - http://www.ms-solicitors.co.uk/about-us/meet-the-team/fiona-martin/

Your employer 'should' contribute up to £350 towards the costs if the are following government redundancy guidelines.
 


S

Swillis

Banned
Dec 10, 2015
1,568
Munkfish said:
Recently I have been informed my role of 8 years is no longer needed by the company I work for. These things happen, I am due a fairly nice pay out and I am happy to move on.

However there are two people who do my role one based in another location, however my role was selected over his due to the fact the business decided we did separate roles. However we both have the same job description and are the same level essentially doing the same Job but in a different location.

In my mind the company I work for should have made this a 2 into 1 redundancy pool, this has not happened and as such I feel I have been treated more than a little unfairly.

I am currently a week away from the appeals process however the company I work for still haven't held their hands up and said we have done this wrong.

Is there anyone on here who has any experience in Employment law etc I would be happy to pay to speak to someone if that was what is needed.

Any help or thoughts on this would be great.

Cheers.
Click to expand...

This man has forgotten more about employment law than most will know. I have used him before and was very happy. Karl Limpert is the man you need.

http://employmentlawclinic.com
 


Braggfan

Braggfan

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded
May 12, 2014
1,831
If you’re the only person doing that post they don’t have to go through a selection process, which is probably why they've said they other job isn't the same. Obviously this is the crux of your argument as you are saying you’re not the only person doing that job. The tricky thing for you is that you will have to prove that the two posts you refer to are the same, it’s hard to comment without knowing how they draw the distinction. If it was me I’d try to obtain job descriptions for both posts as this might strengthen your case.

However I hate to say it but it might be more trouble than it’s worth. It’s stressful and you can fight them, win and they include both posts in a selection process and then they make you redundant anyway. It might be worth asking what the prospect of being redeployed to a different position might be. If they have job openings maybe you could be moved into one of them.
 




Goldstone1976

Goldstone1976

We Got Calde in!!
Helpful Moderator
NSC Patron
Apr 30, 2013
13,783
Herts
I'm not a lawyer, but have extensive experience (nearly all from the employer's side) of these types of situations. Firstly, commiserations at the prospect of redundancy. Secondly, congratulations on being philosophical about it. To the point: the key word in your post is "essentially". If the jobs are in fact the same, then you're absolutely right, it should be a 2 in 1 pool. The fact that the other job is in a different location could, depending on the specifics, mean that they are sufficiently different to mean the employer doesn't have to have a pool. The devil is in the detail. I would say, however, that the employer has chosen to not have a pool - it's unlikely that they will willingly change their mind; it'll add delay and cost. Your best route is to talk about it through the consultation process and then appeal, followed by a tribunal for unfair dismissal. Alternatively - use it as leverage to get a bit of a bigger payoff?
 




M

Munkfish

Well-known member
May 1, 2006
11,871
Paul Reids Sock said:
I would have a look through here:

https://www.gov.uk/redundant-your-rights/being-selected-for-redundancy

However this line would suggest that you at least have a right to ask, even if they can provide reasons why

'Your employer can make you redundant without having to follow a selection process if your job no longer exists, eg if:

your employer is closing down a whole operation in a company and making all the employees working in it redundant
you’re the only employee in your part of the organisation'
Click to expand...

Cheers I have gone through that. I somehow managed to get caught up in redundancies made in London. The role still exists.
 




M

Munkfish

Well-known member
May 1, 2006
11,871
Braggfan said:
If you’re the only person doing that post they don’t have to go through a selection process, which is probably why they've said they other job isn't the same. Obviously this is the crux of your argument as you are saying you’re not the only person doing that job. The tricky thing for you is that you will have to prove that the two posts you refer to are the same, it’s hard to comment without knowing how they draw the distinction. If it was me I’d try to obtain job descriptions for both posts as this might strengthen your case.

However I hate to say it but it might be more trouble than it’s worth. It’s stressful and you can fight them, win and they include both posts in a selection process and then they make you redundant anyway. It might be worth asking what the prospect of being redeployed to a different position might be. If they have job openings maybe you could be moved into one of them.
Click to expand...

I Have both JD's they are word for word the same, I was told they were different and that's what the review was conducted on, however when they provided both mine ad the other person in question they were exactly the same covering both sides of the business. as such I feel I have a pretty strong case as they clearly haven't followed their own processes.
 


Paul Reids Sock

Paul Reids Sock

Well-known member
Nov 3, 2004
4,458
Paul Reids boot
Munkfish said:
I Have both JD's they are word for word the same, I was told they were different and that's what the review was conducted on, however when they provided both mine ad the other person in question they were exactly the same covering both sides of the business. as such I feel I have a pretty strong case as they clearly haven't followed their own processes.
Click to expand...

Just seen that you have said 'both sides of the business'

If this is a large company like SSE or water company etc.and subsequently split into more than one internal business then that is probably where they will get you. The duties are the same but the specialism isn't. As such you are the only person doing that 'role'

I agree with Braggfan on the stress, if the money they are offering is good enough to tide you over while you get another job then it may be worth asking the question but not taking it too far if they start playing up.
 


Braggfan

Braggfan

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded
May 12, 2014
1,831
Munkfish said:
I Have both JD's they are word for word the same, I was told they were different and that's what the review was conducted on, however when they provided both mine ad the other person in question they were exactly the same covering both sides of the business. as such I feel I have a pretty strong case as they clearly haven't followed their own processes.
Click to expand...

Its certainly a point to argue with them on, but I think Goldstone 1976's summary is very astute. They could well claim because they're on different sites they are different jobs. But he's also right that you could try and get a better deal by raising in the appeal that the jd's are the same. You could point out that it would be cheaper to them give you a better deal than potentially lose at a tribunal. It's a gamble though. Sh*tty situation all round, and you have my sympathies.
 






studio150

studio150

Well-known member
Jul 30, 2011
29,611
On the Border
Munkfish said:
These things happen, I am due a fairly nice pay out and I am happy to move on.

.
Click to expand...

Take the money and run, and don't worry about selection pools if you are happy to move on.

Having the first £30k tax free is a nice bonus particularly if you are confident of alternative employment within a short timeframe.
 


M

Munkfish

Well-known member
May 1, 2006
11,871
Braggfan said:
Its certainly a point to argue with them on, but I think Goldstone 1976's summary is very astute. They could well claim because they're on different sites they are different jobs. But he's also right that you could try and get a better deal by raising in the appeal that the jd's are the same. You could point out that it would be cheaper to them give you a better deal than potentially lose at a tribunal. It's a gamble though. Sh*tty situation all round, and you have my sympathies.
Click to expand...

Its shitty I really like the company, but I have decided to go.

So to make it a little clearer we both work for the same company which is split into part A and part B. Part A is based in Hove Part B is based in Surrey.

My work covers both Part A and B his role covers only Part B. The Business told me I only worked for Part A due to my JD and he only worked for Part B due to his JD which I would agree with. however I new My JD covered both Part A and B, this is where I started to question the integrity of the process. I have since received the other persons JD and as such we do the same role but in different locations. however neither of our locations impact how we do our job as we can both travel between offices.

The package itself is pretty much 3/4 of my years salary plus my annual bonus and shares tax free so I have money to support me, I just feel like I have been treated unfairly and have little to lose as my offer is not going to be reduced by taking this further.
 


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