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Julian Assange Unlawfully Detained
- Thread starter larus
- Start date
SollysLeftFoot
New member
Yet, despite this; NATO has not invited Ukraine into NATO and invoked A.5. The reason Georgia and Ukraine are not in NATO is purely because they are the ones at most risk of war with Russia. Policy makers in the background have prevented their membership time and time again.
So Eastern European states were FORCED to join NATO after the fall of the USSR? They didn't think that they needed additional protection from Russian aggression? Russia has of course, never provoked Abkhazian rebels, Ossettian rebels, Eastern Ukrainian rebels, never warned other neighboring countries of their 'treatment' of ethnic Russians - absolutely not. It is evidently all because of Western aggression.
Conscription bought back into many Baltic states must be because of NATO aggression, rather then Russia being a genuine threat to them.
I don't think you quite understand the purpose of NATO.
https://qz.com/871975/aleksandr-dugin-putins-favorite-philosopher-is-a-big-fan-of-donald-trump/
Perhaps you need to clue yourself up with Russian IR academics...
dingodan
New member
- Feb 16, 2011
- 10,080
The reunification and Germany and the end of the Cold War was predicated on the promise of no NATO expansion east.
https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-...on-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/t...d-documents-gorbachev-told-nato-wouldnt-23629
If the Cold War can be said to be back on, then make no mistake, this is why.
SollysLeftFoot
New member
I'm not sure what point you're making here. NATO isn't just a club you can join, you have to be accepted. I also think you're completely misunderstanding why Ukrainians want to join NATO and EU.
symyjym
Banned
I am judging us by our bad behaviour as the aggressor in Iraq, Libya and Syria and financing coups to unsettle governments, so whilst you write excuses you are avoiding reality.
A whataboutism post, I suspect from a lover of Trump. Am I correct?
Tom Bombadil
Well-known member
And then the soviet union broke up and everything changed because it didn't exist anymore.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
I know NATO isn't a club. By its definition it is a Treaty Organisation. I have worked with NATO.
symyjym
Banned
Yes of course this Whataboutism is just a weak deflection that hypocrites use when trying to be a smart arses. Using anythingisms is quite fashionable these days but nice try in avoiding the bigger picture.
Edit: What's with the Trump lover comment? Just proving how childish you are. Thanks I have taken note
dingodan
New member
- Feb 16, 2011
- 10,080
You think deteriorating relations between the West and Russia has nothing to do with NATO expanding east? It has everything to do with it. The issue was that a Western military alliance expanding east was percieved as a potential threat to the Soviet Union, just like a Soviet military alliance expanding west would have been percieved as a threat by the West. Do you think that calculation changes whether we are talking about the Soviet Union or modern day Russia? It doesn't in the slightest.
Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo
Waxing chumps like candles since ‘75
- Oct 4, 2003
- 11,063
I thought he'd been living in the Ecuadorian Embassy for 7 years, now it appears he's been filming a remake of Castaway. I'm sure I saw one of the other coppers carrying out Wilson.
Ernest
Stupid IDIOT
Swedish charges have been dropped
dingodan
New member
- Feb 16, 2011
- 10,080
He was arrested on behalf of the U.S. in response to an extradition request.
- Scotland Yard.
Shame on us then
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
I think you will find that the Eastern European states, having been freed from the Soviet Union, wanted help especially once Putin had annexed Crimea.
Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo
Waxing chumps like candles since ‘75
- Oct 4, 2003
- 11,063
He was originally arrested for failure to surrender to the courts according to the BBC. The request on the behalf of the US has come since the original arrest. I wonder what he did to piss of Ecuador?
dingodan
New member
- Feb 16, 2011
- 10,080
I think you might find that it's a little more complicated than that. The Ukranian government (which wanted to closer ties with Russia) was overthrown. There were protests against the overthrow of the government. The new government (which wanted closer ties with the West) attacked protesters in Donetsk and started shelling the town.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Crimea
That was when Russian forces entered the area.
I'm not particularly interested in arguing the rights and wrongs of such a complicated situation, I can see both sides of the argument (when it is had reasonably and based on what actually happened).
But I do find double standards annoying. Every few years we hear about bombs being dropped on people around the world and we want to send in our military forces. Whether you think what Russia did in Crimea was right or wrong, it was a mirror image of what we do around the world frequently. If Russia were an invading force in Crimea, then so are we in multiple theatres around the world. Likewise, if we are a great defender of people under attack, going in to these regions to protect and defend people, then so was Russia in Crimea. You can't have it both ways.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
Indeed ..... if that's true. The BBC are reporting differently but now we have him I'm sure the discussion will come up about handing him over. Maybe we could use him to get a trade deal with the US ?
EDIT - the BBC now reporting "The Met Police said he was arrested for failing to surrender to the court and following a US extradition request." - so I'd stick with the 'shame on us' quote.