Is there anything I can do about this?

TotallyFreaked · Jan 5, 2016

I brought a laptop from Ebay before Christmas and on receipt of the laptop found it to be in very poor condition. The seller described it as manufacturer refurbished which it wasn't as it contained multiple scratches over the front, back and inside of the laptop.

I started a return case through Ebay and asked for returns labels. He refused and told me to send it back through Hermes. Hermes then lost the item but will not pay out compensation because the laptop contains a battery that is an excluded item. All the correspondence have been sent through Ebay messages and I also took photos of the condition of the laptop.

Ebay are telling me there is nothing they can do as I sent it back and is therefore my responsibility. However I acted on the advice of the seller.

So am I basically been screwed over by this or do I have a case against the seller for compensation?

maltaseagull · Jan 5, 2016

TotallyFreaked said:
I brought a laptop from Ebay before Christmas and on receipt of the laptop found it to be in very poor condition. The seller described it as manufacturer refurbished which it wasn't as it contained multiple scratches over the front, back and inside of the laptop.

I started a return case through Ebay and asked for returns labels. He refused and told me to send it back through Hermes. Hermes then lost the item but will not pay out compensation because the laptop contains a battery that is an excluded item. All the correspondence have been sent through Ebay messages and I also took photos of the condition of the laptop.

Ebay are telling me there is nothing they can do as I sent it back and is therefore my responsibility. However I acted on the advice of the seller.

So am I basically been screwed over by this or do I have a case against the seller for compensation?

Speak to the issuer of the card you used to pay for the item and ask them to chargeback under reason code goods not as described/defective.
It will strengthen your case if you can provide photos of the item as received and screenshots of the item as described.

Keep all the correspondence related to the dispute, ideally as screenshots pasted onto a word doc and saved as a pdf

Good luck.

I do a lot of cbks for our customers where Paypal have refused to assist

TotallyFreaked · Jan 5, 2016

maltaseagull said:
Speak to the issuer of the card you used to pay for the item and ask them to chargeback under reason code goods not as described/defective.
It will strengthen your case if you can provide photos of the item as received and screenshots of the item as described.

Keep all the correspondence related to the dispute, ideally as screenshots pasted onto a word doc and saved as a pdf

Good luck.

I do a lot of cbks for our customers where Paypal have refused to assist

Thanks, great advice

Triggaaar · Jan 5, 2016

Ouch.

TotallyFreaked said:
He refused and told me to send it back through Hermes. Hermes then lost the item but will not pay out compensation because the laptop contains a battery that is an excluded item.

That's weird. Many items will include a battery of some sort, I wonder if they're pulling a fast one. Check their T&Cs and google to see if anyone else has had the same problem. That doesn't sound too good to me.

Triggaaar · Jan 5, 2016

I think Hermes are pulling a fast one.

https://www.myhermes.co.uk/RWD/help/carry-guide.html

The Laptop would be excluded from damage cover, but not if lost I would think. They say "We refuse to carry any of the items listed below", which list batteries, and a picture of a car battery. That shouldn't mean they won't let anyone send a watch, camera, mobile phone etc.

TotallyFreaked · Jan 5, 2016

Triggaaar said:
Wow - makes mental note to never use Hermes:

https://www.myhermes.co.uk/RWD/help/carry-guide.html

Yup that's what they sent back to me. It is not something I would think to check and when I labelled my item as a Laptop their system did not picked up on it.

Triggaaar · Jan 5, 2016

TotallyFreaked said:
Yup that's what they sent back to me. It is not something I would think to check and when I labelled my item as a Laptop their system did not picked up on it.

They're definitely trying it on. Laptops and similar are not excluded, and there is no exemption for cover from loss.

StonehamPark · Jan 5, 2016

TotallyFreaked said:
Yup that's what they sent back to me. It is not something I would think to check and when I labelled my item as a Laptop their system did not picked up on it.

Triggaaar said:
They're definitely trying it on. Laptops and similar are not excluded, and there is no exemption for cover from loss.

Trigg's spot on.

You cannot ship items with LOOSE batteries.
Electrical items with in-built batteries are absolutely fine.

Make customer services at Hermes aware of the above and hopefully it'll be swiftly resolved.

If Hermes refused to ship anything with batteries, they'd be out of business.
Tablets, laptops, mobiles, toys. Ridiculous.

Triggaaar · Jan 5, 2016

StonehamPark said:
Make customer services at Hermes aware of the above and hopefully it'll be swiftly resolved.

And don't sound wishy-washy, like you can be fobbed off. It's definitely covered, Hermes has to pay.

When it comes down to it, Hermes don't decide what's reasonable, a judge does, and that would be covered.

TotallyFreaked · Jan 5, 2016

Thanks for all the advice. Maybe back to Hermes first. It just amazes me how difficult these things can become and seems that obstacles are put in the way in the hope that you just give up first.

StonehamPark · Jan 5, 2016

Just in case you weren't aware, they have a live chat option which could be useful.

Hermes Live Chat

father_and_son · Jan 5, 2016

TotallyFreaked said:
I brought a laptop from Ebay before Christmas and on receipt of the laptop found it to be in very poor condition. The seller described it as manufacturer refurbished which it wasn't as it contained multiple scratches over the front, back and inside of the laptop.

Just me or does anyone else think OP is being unreasonable...?

A used laptop is NOT new and therefore should expect cosmetic damage unless sold "As New" or "Mint".

Manufacturer's Refurb, means that it has been cleaned, tested and any defective parts replaced by the original manufacturer or an approved reseller/repairer. So I would expect all the keys to be attached, the HDD to be cleaned and not to have someone else's crumbs fall out if I tip it upside down (and of course for it to work). However, I would expect scuffs and scratches that didn't materially impact operation -for example, on the case or wrist plate but not on the screen..

Having said that, the seller has offered a returns policy despite the fact, IMHO he has done nothing wrong, and your complaint about the laptop being lost is SOLELY against the courier not the seller. Pursuing the seller because you used a sh*tty courier is your issue not his.

Triggaaar · Jan 5, 2016

TotallyFreaked said:
Thanks for all the advice. Maybe back to Hermes first.

There's no maybe about it. They lost it, no one else, and they are responsible. If Hermes realise you think 'maybe', they will fob you off.

TotallyFreaked · Jan 5, 2016

father_and_son said:
Just me or does anyone else think OP is being unreasonable...?

A used laptop is NOT new and therefore should expect cosmetic damage unless sold "As New" or "Mint".

Manufacturer's Refurb, means that it has been cleaned, tested and any defective parts replaced by the original manufacturer or an approved reseller/repairer. So I would expect all the keys to be attached, the HDD to be cleaned and not to have someone else's crumbs fall out if I tip it upside down (and of course for it to work). However, I would expect scuffs and scratches that didn't materially impact operation -for example, on the case or wrist plate but not on the screen..

Having said that, the seller has offered a returns policy despite the fact, IMHO he has done nothing wrong, and your complaint about the laptop being lost is SOLELY against the courier not the seller. Pursuing the seller because you used a sh*tty courier is your issue not his.

I understand your point but the issue is with 'Manufacturer's Refurb' He is not the manufacturer or an approved reseller. He described it as light scratches on lid where there was scratches over the whole of the laptop including the inside. I am more than happy to post the pictures if it helps and the ebay description.

He also advised me to send it back through Hermes

StonehamPark · Jan 5, 2016

TotallyFreaked said:
Thanks for all the advice. Maybe back to Hermes first. It just amazes me how difficult these things can become and seems that obstacles are put in the way in the hope that you just give up first.

Triggaaar said:
There's no maybe about it. They lost it, no one else, and they are responsible. If Hermes realise you think 'maybe', they will fob you off.

And emphasize that there are different Hermes guidelines for Lost and Damaged compensation.
The person you spoke to at Hermes has clearly got the two mixed up.

Hermes will not compensate for DAMAGE to a laptop in transit but they will (according to their terms) compensate for a LOST laptop.

Norman Baker suck my lozenge · Jan 5, 2016

If you have the address of the person how about you and a few mates go see him?

TotallyFreaked · Jan 5, 2016

StonehamPark said:
Just in case you weren't aware, they have a live chat option which could be useful.

Hermes Live Chat

Getting nowhere with this, he just keeps sending me the list of excluded items (3 times now) Trying to escalate it to his supervisor. Grrrrrr

studio150 · Jan 5, 2016

It is interesting that the pictures of prohibited items shows a car battery but in the written list, batteries are not mentioned at all. So clearly with only a visual of a car battery other batteries can not be excluded from cover.

as others have mentioned loss is therefore not excluded.

Brian Fantana · Jan 5, 2016

TotallyFreaked said:
Getting nowhere with this, he just keeps sending me the list of excluded items (3 times now) Trying to escalate it to his supervisor. Grrrrrr

Have you put the point to him that if they refused to carry any items with batteries, they'd have very little else to choose from and would probably be out of business.

They're totally in the wrong here, and they'll know it, but they'll try as hard as possible to fob you off.

Mr Putdown · Jan 5, 2016

Unless you paid extra for increased compensation you are only going to get £25 back from Hermes if they accept your claim.

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