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Finland plans to pay each citizen 800 euros per month, in national basic income proposal



Horton's halftime iceberg

Blooming Marvellous
Jan 9, 2005
16,484
Brighton
This has been a Green Policy for years, although the 800 euros seems a lot, basic money that anyone can claim would reduce poverty and allows people to live, working then allows you to earn more and improve your lot.

Its now known as the Citizen Income and has groups that campaign for it, always thought it is a sensible policy - Greens at the last election set it at 72 pounds a week

http://www.newstatesman.com/politic...come-71-week-person-would-make-britain-fairer
 

Gwylan

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
31,320
Uffern
I started a thread on this a few months ago. It's a really interesting idea - Switzerland has a referendum on this next year - and it's being talked about by several other countries. I reckon it will be commonplace across Europe within 20 years
 

Horton's halftime iceberg

Blooming Marvellous
Jan 9, 2005
16,484
Brighton
I started a thread on this a few months ago. It's a really interesting idea - Switzerland has a referendum on this next year - and it's being talked about by several other countries. I reckon it will be commonplace across Europe within 20 years

Yes it often comes in lower than the entire benefits budget so actually creates savings
 

Blue Valkyrie

Not seen such Bravery!
Sep 1, 2012
32,165
Valhalla
A beer costs about 800 Euros in Helsinki, so a nice gesture from their Government.
 


Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jul 11, 2003
59,073
The Fatherland
I started a thread on this a few months ago. It's a really interesting idea - Switzerland has a referendum on this next year - and it's being talked about by several other countries. I reckon it will be commonplace across Europe within 20 years

It's a very interesting and very progressive concept. I really can't see it happening in the UK though.
 

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,239
its a policy that seems to have gained traction with some economist you wouldn't have thought, on the liberal, classical wing. the numbers for the UK are unfeasible, at least in the version presented by the Greens. however, if you replace *all* welfare *and* pensions, then it may be that the numbers start too look achievable.
 

CherryInHove

Active member
Apr 16, 2015
154
It's a very interesting and very progressive concept. I really can't see it happening in the UK though.

Something like this is going to have to happen in the UK. As automation takes over more and more jobs, there simply won't be enough employment for everyone to have a job if they want to or not. It's not going to be long before all taxi drivers, lorry drivers etc are replaced by automated cars. That's maybe 1,000,000 jobs gone? Then the knock on effect of automated cars. Why stay in a hotel when you can just get into an automated car, tell it to take you 8 hours away and have a sleep? So, there are less people needed in hotels.
 


Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jul 11, 2003
59,073
The Fatherland
Something like this is going to have to happen in the UK. As automation takes over more and more jobs, there simply won't be enough employment for everyone to have a job if they want to or not. It's not going to be long before all taxi drivers, lorry drivers etc are replaced by automated cars. That's maybe 1,000,000 jobs gone? Then the knock on effect of automated cars. Why stay in a hotel when you can just get into an automated car, tell it to take you 8 hours away and have a sleep? So, there are less people needed in hotels.

Why stay in a hotel when you can kip in a car? Do I really need to answer this question?
 

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jul 11, 2003
59,073
The Fatherland
Something like this is going to have to happen in the UK. As automation takes over more and more jobs, there simply won't be enough employment for everyone to have a job if they want to or not. It's not going to be long before all taxi drivers, lorry drivers etc are replaced by automated cars. That's maybe 1,000,000 jobs gone? Then the knock on effect of automated cars. Why stay in a hotel when you can just get into an automated car, tell it to take you 8 hours away and have a sleep? So, there are less people needed in hotels.

I think the long term reality will be it doesn't happen in the UK. My version is that most will have deserted the the green and pleasant land by then and left it to a small band of happy Little Englanders rejoicing in their black passports singing Rule Britannia to each other.

Being serious that motorcycle riding Greek economist type has some interesting views on long term automation.
 

CherryInHove

Active member
Apr 16, 2015
154
Why stay in a hotel when you can kip in a car? Do I really need to answer this question?

Well, obviously that wouldn't work out well with current cars, but for future ones that don't need a driver, then they are obviously going to make ones that have a proper bed as lots of people will be doing this.
 


Gwylan

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
31,320
Uffern
I think the long term reality will be it doesn't happen in the UK. My version is that most will have deserted the the green and pleasant land by then and left it to a small band of happy Little Englanders rejoicing in their black passports singing Rule Britannia to each other.

Depending which economist you believe, something like 65 to 80% of all jobs will disappear in the next 30 years (and not all of them will be replaced). There will be a global move towards automation and you don't think the UK will be affected? There are already trials for self-driving cars on British roads and they're widely expected to be available within 10 years. Amazon is already experimenting with drone delivery and there will be more robotics in general use. I really can't see why a multinational would introduce automation across the globe but leave the UK as it is.
 

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jul 11, 2003
59,073
The Fatherland
Depending which economist you believe, something like 65 to 80% of all jobs will disappear in the next 30 years (and not all of them will be replaced). There will be a global move towards automation and you don't think the UK will be affected? There are already trials for self-driving cars on British roads and they're widely expected to be available within 10 years. Amazon is already experimenting with drone delivery and there will be more robotics in general use. I really can't see why a multinational would introduce automation across the globe but leave the UK as it is.

My point was not whether the UK would be affected by automaton, it will. My point is that I cannot see the UK, with it's entrenched belief that all benefits are for scroungers, subscribing this scheme of handing out payments to everyone.
 

Gwylan

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
31,320
Uffern
My point was not whether the UK would be affected by automaton, it will. My point is that I cannot see the UK, with it's entrenched belief that all benefits are for scroungers, subscribing this scheme of handing out payments to everyone.

I disagree. I can't see it happening any other way. The UK has an entrenched belief in avoiding civic upheaval and I can't see a situation where, say, 5% of the populace is rich, 15% is surviving and the other 80% are living in poverty, is sustainable
 


looney

Banned
Jul 7, 2003
15,652
The technology destroys jobs argument is as fake now as its always been, After 6pm most of those who will be expected to pay for this will be online here and have their say..
 

looney

Banned
Jul 7, 2003
15,652
I disagree. I can't see it happening any other way. The UK has an entrenched belief in avoiding civic upheaval and I can't see a situation where, say, 5% of the populace is rich, 15% is surviving and the other 80% are living in poverty, is sustainable

Maybe if Labour renounce the policy of using immigration to "top up the poor" those kind of numbers wont appear.
 

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jul 11, 2003
59,073
The Fatherland
The technology destroys jobs argument is as fake now as its always been, After 6pm most of those who will be expected to pay for this will be online here and have their say..

In the past jobs lost to tech have been replaced by more jobs elsewhere. It has been argued were approaching a time where this won't happen.
 


Elvis

Well-known member
Mar 22, 2010
1,413
Viva Las Hove
. Why stay in a hotel when you can just get into an automated car, tell it to take you 8 hours away and have a sleep? So, there are less people needed in hotels.

Sir Lenny Henry would disagree with you!
 

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jul 11, 2003
59,073
The Fatherland
I disagree. I can't see it happening any other way. The UK has an entrenched belief in avoiding civic upheaval and I can't see a situation where, say, 5% of the populace is rich, 15% is surviving and the other 80% are living in poverty, is sustainable

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