Help please...Recording vinyl to pc

1066familyman · Nov 15, 2015

Ok, NSC being the font of all wisdom...

...Anyone able to help me record vinyl onto pc as wav files for playback on portable devices please?

I have old Vestax decks so I'm not looking to buy a usb turntable for the job.

Decks go into a mixer via the phono inputs

Mixer is connected to power amp via send and return on mixer to in & out on power amp.

Having tried an old creative sounblaster box thingy, and also Audacity, I'm getting no sound to the pc, either via the creative box via usb, or audacity via line in on pc.

I'm totally confused as to what connections I need to be making and no youtube video is helping so far.

Anyone want to talk me through what goes where at a very basic level please? The more I tinker the more confused I'm getting

Randsta · Nov 15, 2015

If you're not getting any sound on your pc from either USB or Audio input I would look to see if your soundcard is working properly. May be un-istall and re-install the drivers > if this works just use Audacity (as you have this and record the tracks. I'd save them as 320 kbps MP3's as they will be smaller files than wav and you can add more information in the file in the form of ID3 tag info such as Artist, Title, Label, whatever you want.

1066familyman · Nov 15, 2015

Randsta said:
If you're not getting any sound on your pc from either USB or Audio input I would look to see if your soundcard is working properly. May be un-istall and re-install the drivers > if this works just use Audacity (as you have this and record the tracks. I'd save them as 320 kbps MP3's as they will be smaller files than wav and you can add more information in the file in the form of ID3 tag info such as Artist, Title, Label, whatever you want.

Thanks, I think I could have a dodgy soundcard as it goes as it's an old vista laptop and the built in speakers have really low volume output most of the time ( compared to same model laptop also in the house). I'm finally getting some sound recorded onto audacity but it's very poor quality and barely audible. The cable set up is:

Phono from turntable to phono on mixer.

Send on mixer into line in on pc ( adapter used from stereo rca down to 3.5mm jack)

I'd prefer to record as wav for sound quality rather than mp3, although you make a good point about edit info. Storage isn't a huge problem as I can store everything onto external hard drives and just put on portable devices as and when I want them. I won't be using the portable devices to store everything on so not concerned about big wav sizes compared to mp3.

1066familyman · Nov 15, 2015

Edit:

In fact, scrub what I said about laptop soundcard as cd's play fine in the drive and also headphone volume is fine on web videos. So possibly soundcard isn't the issue.

I've tried the same cable set up as above using the creative box, which in theory should be better as no 3.5mm involved, just send on mixer to stereo line in on creative box to usb on pc. Unfortunately creative is giving me no sound at all

Any ideas?

Pantani · Nov 15, 2015

1066familyman said:
Edit:

In fact, scrub what I said about laptop soundcard as cd's play fine in the drive and also headphone volume is fine on web videos. So possibly soundcard isn't the issue.

I've tried the same cable set up as above using the creative box, which in theory should be better as no 3.5mm involved, just send on mixer to stereo line in on creative box to usb on pc. Unfortunately creative is giving me no sound at all Any ideas?

Are you on windows? An awful lot of windows programs need to be closed then reopened post connection for audio. For some reason it just does not register freshly connected inputs.

Does that make sense? I suspect you have tried this, but I have had this problem several times, especially on Windows 7.

happypig · Nov 15, 2015

I've done it thusly:
Turntable connected to amp. Tape rec output into soundcard input via 2 x phono to 3.5mm stereo cable. Can't remember exactly which Audacity setting but fiddle with it's under "devices".

1066familyman · Nov 15, 2015

Pantani said:
Are you on windows? An awful lot of windows programs need to be closed then reopened post connection for audio. For some reason it just does not register freshly connected inputs.

Does that make sense? I suspect you have tried this, but I have had this problem several times, especially on Windows 7.

Thanks P, will give this a try as on Vista. I had previously already had creative 'wavestudio' open then put in the inputs. Will try the other way around and see what happens.

It doesn't help that the instructions with the creative device don't match the options I have after having installed the entire program. I don't have the - 'creative smart record' option for instance, neither does a 'record wizard' then pop up

1066familyman · Nov 15, 2015

happypig said:
I've done it thusly:
Turntable connected to amp. Tape rec output into soundcard input via 2 x phono to 3.5mm stereo cable. Can't remember exactly which Audacity setting but fiddle with it's under "devices".

Thanks.

My trouble is I don't have an integrated amp. Instead I have a power amp and use a mixer as a pre amp, so everything has to come via the mixer.

Even when I get some sound through Audible I'm finding 'preferences' very confusing and not sure what to tweak where. Youtube isn't helping me either.

GT49er · Nov 15, 2015

1066familyman said:
Ok, NSC being the font of all wisdom...

...Anyone able to help me record vinyl onto pc as wav files for playback on portable devices please?

I have old Vestax decks so I'm not looking to buy a usb turntable for the job.

Decks go into a mixer via the phono inputs

Mixer is connected to power amp via send and return on mixer to in & out on power amp.

Having tried an old creative sounblaster box thingy, and also Audacity, I'm getting no sound to the pc, either via the creative box via usb, or audacity via line in on pc.

I'm totally confused as to what connections I need to be making and no youtube video is helping so far.

Anyone want to talk me through what goes where at a very basic level please? The more I tinker the more confused I'm getting

No problem, just don't bother about hanging on to all the old clobber that apparently ain't working. Just get one of these - http://www.ionaudio.com/products/details/duodeck - about £60 at your local Maplins and plug it in. Job done - and it does audio cassettes as well.

happypig · Nov 15, 2015

1066familyman said:
Thanks.

My trouble is I don't have an integrated amp. Instead I have a power amp and use a mixer as a pre amp, so everything has to come via the mixer.

Even when I get some sound through Audible I'm finding 'preferences' very confusing and not sure what to tweak where. Youtube isn't helping me either.

The mixer/pre-amp should output 500mA line level (It amplifies the gramophone input to that level). Try going from the mixer output to the sound card input.

1066familyman · Nov 15, 2015

Pantani said:
Are you on windows? An awful lot of windows programs need to be closed then reopened post connection for audio. For some reason it just does not register freshly connected inputs.

Does that make sense? I suspect you have tried this, but I have had this problem several times, especially on Windows 7.

You were right, windows now recognising the creative box thingy as a - 'SPDIF Interface USB Audio'.

Still no bloody sound recording though. I even selected the SPDIF device in Audacity to see if I could work a marriage between the two, but still nothing

1066familyman · Nov 15, 2015

GT49er said:
No problem, just don't bother about hanging on to all the old clobber that apparently ain't working. Just get one of these - http://www.ionaudio.com/products/details/duodeck - about £60 at your local Maplins and plug it in. Job done - and it does audio cassettes as well.

Thanks, but I've no need of a usb turntable thanks.

If push comes to shove I'll record the vinyl onto CDRW discs on the stand alone cd recorder, shove the CDRW into the computer and take them off that way. I still keep all files as wav that way, but was hoping to go more direct than that.

GT49er · Nov 15, 2015

1066familyman said:
Thanks, but I've no need of a usb turntable thanks.

If push comes to shove I'll record the vinyl onto CDRW discs on the stand alone cd recorder, shove the CDRW into the computer and take them off that way. I still keep all files as wav that way, but was hoping to go more direct than that.

Fair enough. Up to you. Just sounds like unnecessary hard work to me!

beorhthelm · Nov 15, 2015

happypig said:
The mixer/pre-amp should output 500mA line level (It amplifies the gramophone input to that level). Try going from the mixer output to the sound card input.

thinking along these lines. the mixer line out should go into the line in on the computer. to sanity check you could try headphones from the mixer into the mic on the computer as that should at least get you working, even at a loss of quality. though if these are vinyl that have been played and mixed a lot, the quality might not be brilliant to start

1066familyman · Nov 15, 2015

happypig said:
The mixer/pre-amp should output 500mA line level (It amplifies the gramophone input to that level). Try going from the mixer output to the sound card input.

I have gone from the send on the mixer to the line in on the pc (with a stereo rca to 3.5mm converter in there)

I realise that phono level is less than line level. I did try direct from turntable to pc, as an ultra long shot but of course that can't work from an analogue turntable as it has no internal amplification.

Btw, I'm not getting any younger and I've forgotten more than the little bit I ever learnt about wiring up proper hi fi, so adding a pc into the mix is totally confusing me. If any of the pseudo technical gubbings I've written above sounds like a load of old bollox to you, it probably is, so feel free to correct me. I'm getting more and more confused as I go along here

1066familyman · Nov 15, 2015

GT49er said:
Fair enough. Up to you. Just sounds like unnecessary hard work to me!

No, warming up mono blocks and isolating power supplies and shit like that is hard work, but thankfully I never got that far when putting together my old set up. Sometimes not having enough money to fully indulge an interest can be a good thing :thumbsup:

Thanks for your help anyway. You're certainly not wrong that a simple usb turntable would be a lot less bother.

1066familyman · Nov 15, 2015

beorhthelm said:
thinking along these lines. the mixer line out should go into the line in on the computer. to sanity check you could try headphones from the mixer into the mic on the computer as that should at least get you working, even at a loss of quality. though if these are vinyl that have been played and mixed a lot, the quality might not be brilliant to start

Thanks, I think I've tried all what you've suggested at some point, but I'm now totally confused that I need to come back to it a fresh another evening now.

I shall certainly re read your suggestion and start from there next time. :thumbsup:

binky · Nov 16, 2015

The output from the turntable, i.e. the cartridge), is as you surmised, much too low to be attached directly to the soundcard line-in.
Additionally, Vinyl outputs need RIAA equalisation as well as pre-amplification.
Your Mixer undoubtedly does this, so the question is how to connect the mixer to your computer.

I probably wouldn't use the output from your mixer which normally goes to the power amp.
While this is nominally at "line-out" signal strength, there are no real standards as to what that means in practice.
Additionally, "pro" audio gear sometimes has higher, sometimes much higher outputs at line-level. (It goes to ELEVEN!)

I would be looking for an output on the mixer labeled something like "Pre Amp Out", to try.

Better would be a tape/cassette input/output connection.
This is the closest you are going to find to a standard line level output, as tape recorders were quite sensitive to line-level inputs.
Use the Tape Out, or Tape Record outputs from the Mixer to connect to the Line-in connector on your sound card.

Now to the Computer "sound card".
You say it's a laptop.
It is rare for a Laptop to have a dedicated line-in socket.
Commonly, you will have a headphone socket (Green), and a microphone socket (Pink), if there is a line-in socket, it will likely be coloured blue.

If you are connecting to the pink headphone in socket, then you are not going to have a successful outcome, as the microphone in channel has a bunch of equalisation and pre-amplificaiton built in (Which is not the same as needed for a vinyl input unfortunately).
If that is what you have on the laptop, (a pink microphone socket), then your only option realistically is to use a USB input device, (soundcard, USB Turntable) which has a "proper" line-in channel. (Or use a tower PC with a "Proper" soundcard).
The cheapest USB soundcards with a Line In socket are about a tenner from Amazon, but at that price, sound quality is not the primary concern.

Offline recording to a CDR, is actually not a bad option, (depending on recorder), because you will likely obtain better sound quality through avoiding the hostile electronic environment of the PC, (Although a laptop will be better than a tower PC in that respect), and the dedicated CDR recorder will likely have better components than a USB/soundcard circuit made for pennies.

Hope this shines some light onto your predicament.

1066familyman · Nov 19, 2015

binky said:
The output from the turntable, i.e. the cartridge), is as you surmised, much too low to be attached directly to the soundcard line-in.
Additionally, Vinyl outputs need RIAA equalisation as well as pre-amplification.
Your Mixer undoubtedly does this, so the question is how to connect the mixer to your computer.

I probably wouldn't use the output from your mixer which normally goes to the power amp.
While this is nominally at "line-out" signal strength, there are no real standards as to what that means in practice.
Additionally, "pro" audio gear sometimes has higher, sometimes much higher outputs at line-level. (It goes to ELEVEN!)

I would be looking for an output on the mixer labeled something like "Pre Amp Out", to try.

Better would be a tape/cassette input/output connection.
This is the closest you are going to find to a standard line level output, as tape recorders were quite sensitive to line-level inputs.
Use the Tape Out, or Tape Record outputs from the Mixer to connect to the Line-in connector on your sound card.

Now to the Computer "sound card".
You say it's a laptop.
It is rare for a Laptop to have a dedicated line-in socket.
Commonly, you will have a headphone socket (Green), and a microphone socket (Pink), if there is a line-in socket, it will likely be coloured blue.

If you are connecting to the pink headphone in socket, then you are not going to have a successful outcome, as the microphone in channel has a bunch of equalisation and pre-amplificaiton built in (Which is not the same as needed for a vinyl input unfortunately).
If that is what you have on the laptop, (a pink microphone socket), then your only option realistically is to use a USB input device, (soundcard, USB Turntable) which has a "proper" line-in channel. (Or use a tower PC with a "Proper" soundcard).
The cheapest USB soundcards with a Line In socket are about a tenner from Amazon, but at that price, sound quality is not the primary concern.

Offline recording to a CDR, is actually not a bad option, (depending on recorder), because you will likely obtain better sound quality through avoiding the hostile electronic environment of the PC, (Although a laptop will be better than a tower PC in that respect), and the dedicated CDR recorder will likely have better components than a USB/soundcard circuit made for pennies.

Hope this shines some light onto your predicament.

Thanks for such a detailed post. Here's an update.

The laptop does have a dedicated blue line in only jack, alongside the pink mic and black headphone. I did try the mic input out of curiosity but, as you say, only rubbish results would be likely from that route.

My mixer has four channels, 3 switchable between line and phono, and one dedicated line. This effectively gives me 7 options, so I plug in 2x turntables, 2 x dedicated cd players, tuner, tape deck and a dedicated cd recorder. The inputs/outputs on the back, in terms of amp options etc. conisist of: send, return, unbalanced out, sampler out, and also A + B 3 pin sockets.

I tried before coming out of the dedicated line in channel but no joy there. I also tried the send and return, figuring like you say, to use these as that's what I use for the power amp. Following your advice I've since tried sampler out through Audacity and now getting a bit better signal, but it's still poor.

I may tinker more with the other outputs and the creative box again, mainly to see if I can solve this conundrum, but I've finally concluded that I'm much better off just using my cd recorder and cdrw discs instead. One extra step and more time involved, but at least I can guarantee sound quality this way.

Thanks everyone for your help and suggestions.

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