We're not great at football we're not great at rugby!

Doc Lynam · Nov 11, 2015

And don't even get started on tennis! England rugby has announced a "global search" for a new head coach saying "This is still one of the biggest jobs in world rugby coaching. The resources we put behind the head coach is significant, there's a group of talented players that the head coach has to work with and it is an attractive job." There never seems to be a shortage of money or resources available at the very top of English sport, so why are we just so well, middle of the road in sports we used to be great at? Sporting institutions in this country seem very myopic, blaming one figure usually the coach, often resulting in a p45 when performances don't match up; or do our sporting problems run deeper? Are the Germans that much better then us a football? How come we disappeared as a world rugby force after 2003 and very little seemed to be built on it? Its all a little bit head scratching!

Questions · Nov 11, 2015

We've won the World Cup in both. Just need the cricket one now.

Questions · Nov 11, 2015

Doc Lynam said:
And don't even get started on tennis! England rugby has announced a "global search" for a new head coach saying "This is still one of the biggest jobs in world rugby coaching. The resources we put behind the head coach is significant, there's a group of talented players that the head coach has to work with and it is an attractive job." There never seems to be a shortage of money or resources available at the very top of English sport, so why are we just so well, middle of the road in sports we used to be great at? Sporting institutions in this country seem very myopic, blaming one figure usually the coach, often resulting in a p45 when performances don't match up; or do our sporting problems run deeper? Are the Germans that much better then us a football? How come we disappeared as a world rugby force after 2003 and very little seemed to be built on it? Its all a little bit head scratching!

We made the final in 2007 didn't we ? You're being a bit knee jerk and a tad negative here I think. We play a lot of different sports.

Gwylan · Nov 11, 2015

Doc Lynam said:
And don't even get started on tennis! England rugby has announced a "global search" for a new head coach saying "This is still one of the biggest jobs in world rugby coaching. The resources we put behind the head coach is significant, there's a group of talented players that the head coach has to work with and it is an attractive job." There never seems to be a shortage of money or resources available at the very top of English sport, so why are we just so well, middle of the road in sports we used to be great at? Sporting institutions in this country seem very myopic, blaming one figure usually the coach, often resulting in a p45 when performances don't match up; or do our sporting problems run deeper? Are the Germans that much better then us a football? How come we disappeared as a world rugby force after 2003 and very little seemed to be built on it? Its all a little bit head scratching!

That's easy to answer. Lack of facilities, lack of coaching staff (what are the figures for us and Germany again?), little investment at the grass roots, reduction in school sports. Can't see it getting much better to be honest.

I can't speak for rugby or football but I help out with coaching at my local cricket club. I've been doing so for a year and have been trying to improve my coaching skills by stepping up to Level 2 and getting a qualification. Been waiting for a nearly a year for a course in Sussex and according to the county board, there aren't any planned until next summer. If that's the situation in other sports, it's little wonder we're lagging behind

Doc Lynam · Nov 11, 2015

Questions said:
We made the final in 2007 didn't we ? You're being a bit knee jerk and a tad negative here I think. We play a lot of different sports.

Knee jerk really! We've been plodding along for decades at our national games! Yeah we did make the final in 2007 but that was only through other teams abject failure as i seem to remember, i maybe wrong though.

Megazone · Nov 11, 2015

We're pretty good at boxing.

GT49er · Nov 12, 2015

Questions said:
We've won the World Cup in both. Just need the cricket one now.

True. The German have the rugby and the cricket to go though, haven't they?

SouthCoastOwl · Nov 12, 2015

Come on now, who wants to be good at football, cricket and rugby when we have the best cyclists on the planet?

...........I'll get my coat.

Stat Brother · Nov 12, 2015

As [MENTION=27736]SouthCoastOwl[/MENTION] sarcastically says, we're the greatest cycling nation, on the planet, and have been at the very top for nearly 10 years.

Ranging from 500 metres through to 3,000 kilometres.

Before anyone gets titsy about competitive nations, they need to remember the second sport named in the title.

SouthCoastOwl · Nov 12, 2015

Stat Brother said:
As [MENTION=27736]SouthCoastOwl[/MENTION] sarcastically says, we're the greatest cycling nation, on the planet, and have been at the very top for nearly 10 years.

Ranging from 500 metres through to 3,000 kilometres.

Before anyone gets titsy about competitive nations, they need to remember the second sport named in the title.

Trust me that wasn't sarcasm and I'm sorry if it came over that way. I'm genuinely pleased and proud that we are currently on top of the cycling world, if you note where I live it's a pretty big deal over here.

However, I'd happily give all that up to see the footy team win something in my life time. I was a year old when we won the world cup so have no recollection of it, therefore it doesn't count.

dazzer6666 · Nov 12, 2015

We're doing ok in Athletics........

Doc Lynam · Nov 12, 2015

Gwylan said:
That's easy to answer. Lack of facilities, lack of coaching staff (what are the figures for us and Germany again?), little investment at the grass roots, reduction in school sports. Can't see it getting much better to be honest.

I can't speak for rugby or football but I help out with coaching at my local cricket club. I've been doing so for a year and have been trying to improve my coaching skills by stepping up to Level 2 and getting a qualification. Been waiting for a nearly a year for a course in Sussex and according to the county board, there aren't any planned until next summer. If that's the situation in other sports, it's little wonder we're lagging behind

It is hard to ignore those 2 points. Is that a lack of political will to protect facilities or a lack of finances being passed down from the top by sporting bodies? Just to play devils advocate i wouldn't have thought there was much money in cricket to be passed down! Be interesting to know how NZ develop the rugby in their country.

Questions · Nov 12, 2015

Doc Lynam said:
Knee jerk really! We've been plodding along for decades at our national games! Yeah we did make the final in 2007 but that was only through other teams abject failure as i seem to remember, i maybe wrong though.

Well if you get to a final you deserve to be there but I take your point especially after our group mauling that year from the Saffers. It wasn't a great team we had then and we over performed I suspect. We under achieved this time round though abeit in what was a very hard group. What you need to remember though is our victory in the football World Cup was a blip. We have never - apart from when the others were getting the hang of it - generally been the best. We compete in so many sports and I think we are pretty good at most. Why should we have any divine rights to best India or Pakistan at cricket for example- let's face it there are a few of them playing it. Our boxers now and our Olympians last time round did us proud I thought. No I think we are a good sporting nation, it's just our national game where we flounder although it's everyone else's national game you have to remember as well.

Gwylan · Nov 12, 2015

Doc Lynam said:
It is hard to ignore those 2 points. Is that a lack of political will to protect facilities or a lack of finances being passed down from the top by sporting bodies? Just to play devils advocate i wouldn't have thought there was much money in cricket to be passed down! Be interesting to know how NZ develop the rugby in their country.

Cricket is awash with money. The ECB signed the deal with Sky specifically because it would bring more money into the game and aid grassroots development - the clubs have seen precious little of it. And England (along with Australia and India) have managed to get their hands on the bulk of money flooding into the game - see the film Death of a Gentleman for further enlightenment.

Because so few teams play top-class cricket (and that's a scandal in itself), England will always be near the top. But considering their wealth and number of people playing the game we should be near the top permanently. If we lose this ODI series to Pakistan, we slide below Bangladesh in the world one-day rankings - that's not a good state of affairs.

It's almost exactly the same story in rugby: lots of money, lots of players (more than Oz and NZ combined I believe), a determination by the big nations to keep the little ones out ... and yet England struggles to punch anything near its weight

WATFORD zero · Nov 12, 2015

We're good at stoolball - but wait till Sky gets hold of it

RandyWanger · Nov 12, 2015

Stat Brother said:
As [MENTION=27736]SouthCoastOwl[/MENTION] sarcastically says, we're the greatest cycling nation, on the planet, and have been at the very top for nearly 10 years.

Ranging from 500 metres through to 3,000 kilometres.

Before anyone gets titsy about competitive nations, they need to remember the second sport named in the title.

Don't forget MTB too, our UCI DH man and women are always challenging for the gold.

We breed good racing drivers too.

Stat Brother · Nov 12, 2015

RandyWanger said:
We breed good racing drivers too.

Do we, or does England happen to be where the bulk of the cars are made?

mikeyjh · Nov 12, 2015

I think we undervalue just how successful we are as a sporting nation. We're very competitive and win world medals in so many sports:- athletics, cycling, boxing, golf, squash, swimming, badminton, F1, hockey the list is very long, we even win medals in gym frigging nastics now. We probably under perform in world cricket tournaments, I'd say that 3 world rugby finals and 1 win is about par, we're normally top 8 in the worlds most popular sport so overall pretty good!

Obv, this is a strange mix of England, GB, UK but I think the point stands.

Doc Lynam · Nov 12, 2015

mikeyjh said:
I think we undervalue just how successful we are as a sporting nation. We're very competitive and win world medals in so many sports:- athletics, cycling, boxing, golf, squash, swimming, badminton, F1, hockey the list is very long, we even win medals in gym frigging nastics now. We probably under perform in world cricket tournaments, I'd say that 3 world rugby finals and 1 win is about par, we're normally top 8 in the worlds most popular sport so overall pretty good!

Obv, this is a strange mix of England, GB, UK but I think the point stands.

I have to agree that as has been mentioned our greatest consistent sporting success have come from cycling in the last 10 years. Principally driving by Dave Brailsford and Dr Steve Peters; i guess this is what i was asking at the start why are we always playing catch up and does it just come down to the head coach? Looking at the cycling model maybe it does after all it was Brailsford who introduced so many changes.

If anyone is interested in what they do and how they do it at British Cycling this is a pretty interesting interview given to a group of advertising bods!

heathgate · Nov 12, 2015

Ever since the drive by mostly Labour councils to eliminate 'competition' from school sports in an effort not to make the 'fat kid' feel left out...the general decline in the overall standards of team sports in this country has been marked.

Non team sports tend to do better because they haven't traditionally formed part of the state school setup.....cycling, athletics, horse riding, sailing etc.

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