legal question as an executor

Neil · Oct 30, 2015

My mother-in-law was badgered into going to live with the son, with him saying," sell the house and he will look after her if she ( yes she) paid for a granny annex 40K to be put on the side of his bungalow out of the sale of her house".
She was in poor health and 3 of the 6 siblings wanted to go into a warden assisted flat.
She was coaxed into going into this annex after lots of promises of looking after her, seeing grandkids etc.
After she moves in during the next 18 months extra building work , loft extension, new drive seemed to be happening TO THE SONS part of the bungalow and the son was getting loans from the mother out of the excess from the sale of the house which the other siblings didn't know about.
She went downhill and died a month ago and the son threw out all the items they didn't want from the annex and the executor had to pick them up from under a tarpaulin in his drive in the rain,and the son kept what he wanted but 2 siblings who are executors cannot get access to get the rest of the items from the annex which they should be able to do.
The son says that its now his house and you can't come in.
Also what happens to the loan(yes it was a loan) that he borrowed from his mother that he still owes well into 5 figures. which should be part of the estate of the other 5 siblings?
Not only has he gained an extension to his property but he got a loan he didn't pay back and has kept other items from the annex
Plus he is a copper :nono:

What should the executor do, sensible answers please

happypig · Oct 30, 2015

See a solicitor.

drew · Oct 30, 2015

Neil said:
My mother-in-law was badgered into going to live with the son, with him saying," sell the house and he will look after her if she ( yes she) paid for a granny annex 40K to be put on the side of his bungalow out of the sale of her house".
She was in poor health and 3 of the 6 siblings wanted to go into a warden assisted flat.
She was coaxed into going into this annex after lots of promises of looking after her, seeing grandkids etc.
After she moves in during the next 18 months extra building work , loft extension, new drive seemed to be happening TO THE SONS part of the bungalow and the son was getting loans from the mother out of the excess from the sale of the house which the other siblings didn't know about.
She went downhill and died a month ago and the son threw out all the items they didn't want from the annex and the executor had to pick them up from under a tarpaulin in his drive in the rain,and the son kept what he wanted but 2 siblings who are executors cannot get access to get the rest of the items from the annex which they should be able to do.
The son says that its now his house and you can't come in.
Also what happens to the loan(yes it was a loan) that he borrowed from his mother that he still owes well into 5 figures. which should be part of the estate of the other 5 siblings?
Not only has he gained an extension to his property but he got a loan he didn't pay back and has kept other items from the annex
Plus he is a copper
What should the executor do, sensible answers please

Speak to a solicitor. The other siblings should know what is in the will so that needs to be taken into account plus even if he claims the money he has appropriated is a gift, as it was within 7 years of her death it will come under inheritance tax rules. At the end of the day, the guy sounds a prick but the other siblings maybe should have kept closer tabs on things before! Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I was an executor for my mothers will which was all straight forward however, at the first sign of disagreements, we would have got solicitors involved.

KZNSeagull · Oct 30, 2015

Re the loan, as long as the estate is solvent, the solicitor should adjust his share of the estate accordingly (ie, he will get less and his siblings should get more than a straight 1/6th share). This happened when my Dad died as we had all at some point borrowed money from him, so everybody's share was adjusted accordingly.

If there is no money in the estate, then I would imagine that the other siblings have a claim against him. Which will get very messy

Gazwag · Oct 30, 2015

As above get a solicitor involved - my mother in law died a month ago and my wife and a solicitor were named in the will as executors, at first I was annoyed as I felt I could sort out probate etc as its a very simple estate, however, I'm pleased the solicitor is involved now as it takes the pressure off as there is somebody to deal with the things we are not sure about while we can deal with the other stuff. OK its going to cost us but hey ho.

knocky1 · Oct 30, 2015

You should hope the copper does not know you post on here. Your first paragraph states that the money was not a loan but an agreement that he look after her in return for £40,000 for the annexe.

knocky1 · Oct 30, 2015

knocky1 said:
You should hope the copper does not know you post on here. Your first paragraph states that the money was not a loan but an agreement that he look after her in return for £40,000 for the annexe.

Sorry I misread the whole story.

See a solicitor.

Paul Reids Sock · Oct 30, 2015

I read it that the 40k was payment for 'looking after' her

But that there were other loans for the other improvements on the house and they are the ones in question

Herr Tubthumper · Oct 30, 2015

You really do need a solicitor; this is a right tangle and I can't stress this enough. It would seem you have not just regular will/executor/tax stuff but possible other areas even stretching as far as criminality if there was undue influence used. Just spending a single hour talking this through with a legal person will benefit you greatly. You will know exactly where you stand and what avenues to pursue.

Hiney · Oct 30, 2015

happypig said:
See a solicitor.

100% this

#minefield

Brian Fantana · Oct 30, 2015

That sounds like it is going to be properly messy.

See a solicitor. No other advice required.

Lifelong Supporter · Oct 30, 2015

See a solicitor for sure but they can only work with what they are given. I would look to provide a schedule with dates and amounts and also a copy of such documentation which is available or could become available.

Out of interest I would also look to carry out a Land Registry Search on the house to check out that it remains in the son's name.

It is messy.

Return of the Rev · Oct 30, 2015

Sounds a right c**t but there are plenty about in these situations tbh.

dazzer6666 · Oct 30, 2015

Massively complicated (not just the will/executorship, but potential undue influence, property ownership/acquired rights etc etc) and definitely needs a solicitor involved pronto. Hope it gets resolved for you but sounds like it'll be a long and messy process.

warmleyseagull · Oct 30, 2015

This will probably need solicitor but beofre jumping in, bear in mind that solicitors like to be paid. Is there enough money in the state for this? If not, are the aggrieved beneficiaries going to club together (they may have to if the issue becomes beneficiary against beneficiary)? Someone needs ot take stock of what the estate is worth, the amount of the loans. Was there a power of attorney in place, if so, someone should have a good grasp of what funds there are? Suggest strongly that the other beneficiaries/excutors agree amongst themselves what to do before one charges off and incurs costs.

Herr Tubthumper · Oct 30, 2015

warmleyseagull said:
This will probably need solicitor but beofre jumping in, bear in mind that solicitors like to be paid. Is there enough money in the state for this? If not, are the aggrieved beneficiaries going to club together (they may have to if the issue becomes beneficiary against beneficiary)? Someone needs ot take stock of what the estate is worth, the amount of the loans. Was there a power of attorney in place, if so, someone should have a good grasp of what funds there are? Suggest strongly that the other beneficiaries/excutors agree amongst themselves what to do before one charges off and incurs costs.

I agree solicitors need to be paid but just a few hours of their work will add valuable information and allow an informed decision as to whether it's financially sensible.

Norman Potting · Oct 30, 2015

Lifelong Supporter said:
See a solicitor for sure but they can only work with what they are given. I would look to provide a schedule with dates and amounts and also a copy of such documentation which is available or could become available.

Out of interest I would also look to carry out a Land Registry Search on the house to check out that it remains in the son's name.

It is messy.

Just to add that, if the land is registered (most is) this is a fairly straightforward process that can be done online, results delivered via email instantly and not very expensive. Go to https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/land-registry

Cheshire Cat · Oct 30, 2015

If she agreed to the loans etc while she was alive and with all her faculties, I suspect she/you/everyone else has been done, but there may be little you can do since she gave her consent.

(this is not a legal opinion)

drew · Oct 30, 2015

Cheshire Cat said:
If she agreed to the loans etc while she was alive and with all her faculties, I suspect she/you/everyone else has been done, but there may be little you can do since she gave her consent.

(this is not a legal opinion)

If they were loans then I suspect they will need to be paid back to the estate. If they were gifts, they will need to be dealt with under IHT rules because she died within 7 years of the gift.

sydney · Oct 30, 2015

i've never met the bloke but i really want to slap him , hard , about the face , repeatedly....!! thieving prick.

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