[Misc] Who remembers the Asbestos Mats we use to use in School Chemistry Lessons

gen · Oct 22, 2015

Who remembers the asbestos mats we use to use in school chemistry lessons?
We used to place them on those little tripods and positioned them over bunsen burners to contain whatever it was we were heating up for a particular experiment. The asbestos was set in a thin wire mesh and was often crumbling and disintegrating. I think I only had about two hours chemistry every week so my exposure to those asbestos mats was limited. If I had gone on to take chemistry as an "option" then my exposure levels would obviously have been more. Our chemistry teachers, on the other hand, would have handled these crumbling asbestos mats on a daily basis. I wonder if there are any mortality statistics of school chemistry teachers who taught in schools pre 1980s compared to those teachers of more benign subjects like maths, geography or French.
I think these asbestos mats were eventually banned in schools in the early 1980s.

beorhthelm · Oct 22, 2015

i think the fears of asbestos are overplayed due to two types. one, the sort you refer to is a bit dangerous if you ground up and inhaled lots of the the stuff, the other sort which was used inside buildings is proper dangerous. reckon the chemistry teacher is exposed to far more dodgy gases and compounds than bunsen burner mats.

Triggaaar · Oct 22, 2015

beorhthelm said:
the sort you refer to is a bit dangerous if you ground up and inhaled lots of the the stuff, the other sort which was used inside buildings is proper dangerous.

Why would the mats be different to the stuff used in buildings?

Garage_Doors · Oct 22, 2015

All the work bench tops were asbestos in the factories at AllenWest in Brighton
That was back in 78. Never thought anything of it.

Notters · Oct 22, 2015

I used to work in the asbestos "industry". The primary risk factors, in terms of materials, are a) the % of asbestos in the product and b) how it is bound to the other constituents.

I imagine the asbestos mats would've been mostly cement (much like corregated roof tiles ) which tends to be very low in asbestos and pretty harmless though I could be wrong.

The worst stuff is flock, which looks like cotton wool but you hardly see it now. The inside of the roofs at craven cottage used to be covered in it. Was also used a fair bit in places like multi storey car parks with a high fire risk.

Asbestos pipe lagging can also be pretty bad.

Garage_Doors · Oct 22, 2015

Triggaaar said:
Why would the mats be different to the stuff used in buildings?

Different grades and types, blue grey etc, some were more dangerous than others.

There was a place up near the station back in the 70's that used to cut it up to sizes for the building industry in the same way they cut timber boards now.
The guy cutting it was always covered in the dust, no dust extraction in those days.

Arthritic Toe · Oct 22, 2015

beorhthelm said:
i think the fears of asbestos are overplayed ......

I suspect the families of the 43,000 mesothelioma deaths each year would disagree...

Triggaaar · Oct 22, 2015

Programme_Seller said:
Different grades and types, blue grey etc, some were more dangerous than others.

I guess they've used asbestos in chemistry for a long time though, before they knew about the problems, so why would they use a different grade?

Perfidious Albion · Oct 22, 2015

Asbestos used to be everywhere when we were young. My dad had an Asbestos garden shed.. when we bought a gas fire we were obliged to provide an asbestos base for it. We bought the sheet from a firm called Doric Asbestos in Shoreham and I used my basic woodwork skills to edge it and cover it with formica....

I guess as others have said, it is the dust that harms you....

beorhthelm · Oct 22, 2015

Triggaaar said:
Why would the mats be different to the stuff used in buildings?

think Notters puts it better, its the flock stuff that's cause of problems. not that sawing and drilling sheets of the sheet stuff unprotected is clever, but its a different level. the mere presence of it will not give you ill health as has become the perception.

Lyndhurst 14 · Oct 22, 2015

Remember walking round a construction site in Western Road where they were stripping out asbestos. The builder made sure everybody donned protective gear before we went in – so far so good. Just inside there was this old guy who had cut a hole in his face mask so that he could carry on smoking whilst working………………

gen · Oct 22, 2015

http://www.teesdalemercury.co.uk/Articles/Legal-victory-over-asbestos-death#sthash.0vRfc7ux.dpbs

Those mats were never in the best condition and always cracked and crumbling. I'm sure that small particles and residue of the stuff came off on our hands, and being a bunch of scruffy urchins our attention to personal hygiene probably wasn't as scrupulous as it might have been, so we probably ended up eating in the school canteen with residue of the stuff on our hands after chemistry lessons. The lab technicians and teachers would have been handling this stuff on a daily basis. See above link to see the dangers of chemistry teaching

AnotherArch · Oct 22, 2015

Notters said:
I used to work in the asbestos "industry". The primary risk factors, in terms of materials, are a) the % of asbestos in the product and b) how it is bound to the other constituents.

I imagine the asbestos mats would've been mostly cement (much like corregated roof tiles ) which tends to be very low in asbestos and pretty harmless though I could be wrong.

The worst stuff is flock, which looks like cotton wool but you hardly see it now. The inside of the roofs at craven cottage used to be covered in it. Was also used a fair bit in places like multi storey car parks with a high fire risk.

Asbestos pipe lagging can also be pretty bad.

I am still "in" asbestos. Whilst you are correct in that asbestos cement is comparatively tightly bound and has a lower asbestos fibre concentration, older cements do contain blue asbestos (crocidolite) which is the most harmful of the the three common types. Along with the brown asbestos (amosite) found in the loose 'flock' and insulating boards, these blue fibres are needle-like and can penetrate the lung lining easier than the curly fibres of chrysotile (white) asbestos found in floor tiles, artex coating, cement, etc.
However, because crocidolite has the best insulating properties, it is highly likely that these heat-resistant pads in the labs do contain blue asbestos. I say "do" because we still find them, even in new schools where they have transferred the old lab equipment. Whilst safe until disturbed, these mats are usually in pretty poor condition with crumbling edges and delaminated, meaning that asbestis fibres have become airborne.
Incidentally, there is no laboratory 'test' for asbestos, as it is chemically inert, will not burn, is a good insulator. It can only be identified by comparing a sample's optical properties with those of known asbestos fibres.

Daffy Duck · Oct 22, 2015

And we used to roll mercury around in the palms of our hands thinking it was brilliant stuff!

gen · Oct 22, 2015

Daffy Duck said:
And we used to roll mercury around in the palms of our hands thinking it was brilliant stuff!

Yeah, I remember doing that in a Physics lesson with a thermometer I had broken. The teacher went berserk.
I don't know if he was more upset about the thermometer or the potential threat to my health.

Nottseagull · Oct 22, 2015

Daffy Duck said:
And we used to roll mercury around in the palms of our hands thinking it was brilliant stuff!

So did we (c.1973). Can't remember any queue organized for the tap afterwards in that school lab! Maybe being a solid, the fluid didn't leave a trace on the skin?

Wrong-Direction · Oct 22, 2015

We use the mats at work all the time!

Notters · Oct 22, 2015

AnotherArch said:
I am still "in" asbestos. Whilst you are correct in that asbestos cement is comparatively tightly bound and has a lower asbestos fibre concentration, older cements do contain blue asbestos (crocidolite) which is the most harmful of the the three common types. Along with the brown asbestos (amosite) found in the loose 'flock' and insulating boards, these blue fibres are needle-like and can penetrate the lung lining easier than the curly fibres of chrysotile (white) asbestos found in floor tiles, artex coating, cement, etc.
However, because crocidolite has the best insulating properties, it is highly likely that these heat-resistant pads in the labs do contain blue asbestos. I say "do" because we still find them, even in new schools where they have transferred the old lab equipment. Whilst safe until disturbed, these mats are usually in pretty poor condition with crumbling edges and delaminated, meaning that asbestis fibres have become airborne.
Incidentally, there is no laboratory 'test' for asbestos, as it is chemically inert, will not burn, is a good insulator. It can only be identified by comparing a sample's optical properties with those of known asbestos fibres.

I thought the regs didn't discriminate between blue/brown and white any more?

I also thought there very much was a lab test - heat the sample to 2500oC, if it's still there, it's asbestos?

BN9 BHA · Oct 22, 2015

Wrong-Direction said:
We use the mats at work all the time!

No you don't.
I expect your dad calls the mat you use when soldering an Asbestos mat, they used to be made of asbestos years back.
Mats used today do not contain asbestos.

Wrong-Direction · Oct 22, 2015

bn9 bha said:
No you don't.
I expect your dad calls the mat you use when soldering an Asbestos mat, they used to be made of asbestos years back.
Mats used today do not contain asbestos.

Oh I see, everything we use has its old school name, I work in feet and inches![emoji57] [emoji106]

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[Misc] Who remembers the Asbestos Mats we use to use in School Chemistry Lessons

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