Wow. That was quite impressive. Inspirational, even.
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Jeremy Corbyn on Andrew Marr programme
- Thread starter Harry Wilson's tackle
- Start date
Working class pride
Banned
- Feb 14, 2010
- 4,932
Agreed with much of what he said, especially on the Monarchy and the Lords, but and this is the problem, he believes in the tyranny of socialism. He thinks it is his job or some other state officials job to decide the allocation of resources instead of you and me.
GingerBeerMan
3-0
- Dec 29, 2011
- 8,022
But when allocation of resources is left to market forces there is always a failing to provide in the most important sectors, and to those who most need it. Check out America; that place is capitalism on steroids. There is huge enequality between the super rich and everybody else. It's literally set up to benefit the very few and lock everyone else into a life of 'just getting by' which,IMHO, isn't something we should be shooting for. Redistribute wealth, don't create a system where greediness and hoarding of capital assets is of huge benefit to people and we'll all have a much more enjoyable life.
What say did you have in the allocation of resources in the last budget? I'm pretty sure George Osbourne didn't contact me for my say.
Blue Valkyrie
Not seen such Bravery!
Don't like him one little bit to be honest.
dingodan
New member
- Feb 16, 2011
- 10,080
Haha, America is hardly an example of free market capitalism.
Manipulated market corporatism more like.
Working class pride
Banned
- Feb 14, 2010
- 4,932
The market. You either believe that you and me decide what we want to buy and the market responds to meet those needs or you believe in the tyranny of socialism and that a state official will tell you what you should want. I want the freedom to set up a company without giving the profits to someone else to spend - I want to spend it myself. The freedom to aspire and that is what he doesnt get. Totally agree with him on the Lords and Monarchy though.
Currently if you start a business you have to give part of the money you make to the government and they decide what to spend it on, you are told what minimum you must pay your workers and so on.
The fact is all politicians are the ones who decide what happens to our resources, it's all a matter of degrees. Our only real input is the election.
I seriously doubt, if Corbyn were to somehow become prime minster, that there would be enough will in Parliament to become a totally socialist society (too much influence from the rich on most of the other MPs to make the changes necessary). You would still be able to make a profit, and while it might not be as large as you'd like right now, it wouldn't need to be as other living costs will come down. You wouldn't have to spend so much on health care and education, you wouldn't have to spend so much taking care of your elderly relatives, buying food, paying utility bills, etc.
8 to 1 to be the next pm. I seriously doubt he will be Labour's leader in 2020
I like the cut of Tim Fallon's cloth. His speech was superb. Corbyn is like a throwback to Karl Marx and we don't need that in 21st century Britain. I am veering towards the lib dems in 2020 espcially as Baker got his just deserts
dingodan
New member
- Feb 16, 2011
- 10,080
Resources are allocated by the market place, in a free and healthy economy. I agree with you, in our economy politicians want a big chunk, not just of money from business, but peoples personal wages too. Notice how we also don't have a free or healthy economy.
What you have to understand is that the market operates organically, you can't manage an economy, just like you can't build a tree. The market is essentially a source of information, when you mess with it and try to bend it to your will, you mess up the information.
For example, leading up to the financial crisis, "not enough people have houses" was the cry. Maybe it was genuine desire to see more homeowners, maybe it was just politics, but the basic story was that we were not happy with the economy, so we tried to change it by acting upon it. We made it easier for people to borrow money, easier than the market would have at the time allowed. When the market didn't allow people to borrow so much it was because they could not afford it, that was good information on which decisions should have been based, instead we didn't like the information, so we tried to change it. To the politicians and the socialists, the market was being selfish, not letting ordinary people on the housing ladder, and instead of seeing the market as it is, dispassionate, a source of information, they saw it as something which needed "fixing". So they fixed it. What happened? Homebuyers increasing, (creates bad information about available capital) prices increasing (creates bad information about property values), (mal)investment increasing (creates bad information about the wellbeing of financial institutions)...The economic crisis which now threatens our welfare system, our health system, our entire economy, was brought on by the very same kinds of actions people are now suggesting will fix it. If we wanted more homeownership we should have tried to foster a more healthy economy.
It was the ideas of people like Jeremy Corbyn, which got us into the mess we are in. The idea that the government must interviene in the market to provide fairness and equality is a noble idea, but it's deeply misguided. It doesn't work, it's a lie.
Another lie is the promise of "free" anything. Nothing is free. The NHS is apparently free, funny that because we are all worrying about how much it costs! There is no free healthcare, education or anything else, someone is paying and despite what you think, it's probably you. Again, the idea of "free healthcare" is pretty noble. But when you say it's "free" and all costs are covered, guess what - money is mismanaged and wasted, and money which is spent where it should be doesn't go as far as it should, because when stuff is "free" (i.e. paid for by the state no matter what and without any competition), prices go up.
I totally feel the same as everyone who wants there to be less poverty, less corruption etc. But if you just act emotively without understanding how economics works then even for all your good intentions you are just going to make a mess. All those people that you hoped to get a little more for, the very people you wanted to help and protect, the most vulnerable in society, they will be the ones most hurt when the NHS goes bankrupt or worse the economy collapses.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design." - Friedrich August von Hayek
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Blue Valkyrie
Not seen such Bravery!
Agreed. Good point about Baker as well.
Tricky Dicky
New member
I kinda want to support him, he seems somewhat different to the usual cookie-cutter politico, more like a friendly geography teacher, then I remember two things, a) he's been an MP for 30 years and b) I don't agree with almost anything he wants to do.
Leave NATO ? Leave the EU ? Get rid of trident ? Re-nationalise the railways ? .... wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong.
Hampster Gull
New member
- Dec 22, 2010
- 13,462
Old school politics of trying to fight a class war, return industry to the states control and isolationism. Shambolic
Beach Hut
Brighton Bhuna Boy
A socialist utopia beckons if you vote Labour now.
Tom Hark Preston Park
Will Post For Cash
- Jul 6, 2003
- 70,124
At least there's now a clear-cut choice of policies for the electorate to vote FOR, rather than voting for varying shades of Tory Lite or Tory Far Rite or None Of The Above. Lib Dems are deluding themselves if they think they're on any kind of comeback trail, any self-respecting party member with any sense of idealism will be voting Labour or Greens or SNP next time around. Lib Dems may as well disband now or be doomed to suffer that single figure share of the vote forever.
My only reservation about Corbyn is that he looks a bit clapped out and seems to lack the will and/or energy to put his ideas across with the passion that those ideas deserve.
My only reservation about Corbyn is that he looks a bit clapped out and seems to lack the will and/or energy to put his ideas across with the passion that those ideas deserve.
Hampster Gull
New member
- Dec 22, 2010
- 13,462
If socialists understood economics they wouldn't be socialists - Von Hayek
BensGrandad
New member
That long before he is toppled? That is 2016 to 2019 untouched as I assume he will make January 2016.
cunning fergus
Well-known member
- Jan 18, 2009
- 4,744
Ha, you sound like one of the many Labour MPs' who will tacitly support him but also disagree with him on the same policy basis.
The interesting point in his interview with Marr was how he said he will deal with the Trident issue with the PLP; he was far from convincing in relation to being able to win the debate with pro NATO/Trident MPs and will likely have free votes.
If that is the strategic direction of travel for him to deal with the numerous matters he has policy differences with the PLP on this will draw out in to the open all the disunity that exists in the party leadership.
Whilst in many respects such an approach is reasonable, the prospect of Labour MPs at odds with each other will make his leadership look weak..........on a rolling basis the PR fallout of this will be unsustainable.
There will need to be a reckoning.
The Merry Prankster
Pactum serva
There's a class war being fought already and unless your in the 1% then it's being fought against you. Junior doctors and legal aid solicitors are this years coal miners. Who knows who they'll go after next year. If they continue borrowing at the same profligate rate they'll have to steal it from someone. Might be you next year.