Car insurance query

BensGrandad · Sep 7, 2015

A relative of mine, newly qualified 19 year old driver has taken a part time job that includes picking up a child from school occasionally is she covered on her normal car insurance or does she need other cover. She gets £20 a month petrol money to cover any shopping trips etc. She asked me rather than the company to draw attention to the fact.

Driver8 · Sep 7, 2015

Why does she need to draw attention to anything? Just phone the Insurance Company and ask!

doogie004 · Sep 7, 2015

Best to ask and yes it may be more but how would they ever know ?

Notters · Sep 7, 2015

If it says "business use" on the certificate then yes, if not, then no. If it doesn't significantly affect her total mileage for the year then they'd probably just charge a circa £30 administration fee to update the insurance.

doogie004 said:
Best to ask and yes it may be more but how would they ever know ?

They probably wouldn't, unless she had an accident, which as a young driver is statistically fairly likely.

BensGrandad · Sep 7, 2015

Most calls are now monitored and if she called they would ask for her details to check her policy. If she was then involved in a claim and had tge child in the car they may tie it in with her call and if they had told her she needed more cover and was not covered would not honour the claim.

carlzeiss · Sep 7, 2015

When I changed my cover from Personal use only to Personal and Business my premium actually went down a little . :thumbsup:

BensGrandad · Sep 7, 2015

Not knowing I thought that as she was picking up somebody and getting paid petrol money that may be construed as being paid for the pick up so possibly hire and reward cover may be required.

doogie004 · Sep 7, 2015

Notters said:
If it says "business use" on the certificate then yes, if not, then no. If it doesn't significantly affect her total mileage for the year then they'd probably just charge a circa £30 administration fee to update the insurance.

They probably wouldn't, unless she had an accident, which as a young driver is statistically fairly likely.

My point was they don't have to say they were being payed so, it's being used as personal use ,you don't have to tell them yes I'm doing it everyday and being payed. But as said best to ask .

Lord Bracknell · Sep 7, 2015

BensGrandad said:
Not knowing I thought that as she was picking up somebody and getting paid petrol money that may be construed as being paid for the pick up so possibly hire and reward cover may be required.

I agree. There seems to be an element of hire and reward in this arrangement, especially since it arises from what has been described as a job. She might also wish to check that there is no requirement for the vehicle and her to be licensed by the council as a private hire vehicle and driver. There can be exemptions to this, but these arise as a result of concessions made by the insurance industry. Her insurance company will be able to advise if those concessions apply in this case.

Igzilla · Sep 7, 2015

Lord Bracknell said:
I agree. There seems to be an element of hire and reward in this arrangement, especially since it arises from what has been described as a job. She might also wish to check that there is no requirement for the vehicle and her to be licensed by the council as a private hire vehicle and driver. There can be exemptions to this, but these arise as a result of concessions made by the insurance industry. Her insurance company will be able to advise if those concessions apply in this case.

I would say that she would need business use insurance, as she is effectively been paid expenses by her employee - in order for me to claim expenses where I work I need to have business use. I seriously doubt she needs any check with the council as she is not a private hire vehicle - she's not acting as a minicab and taking any paying member of the public.

Lord Bracknell · Sep 7, 2015

If, in the course of her employment, she is carrying a child, there may also be an obligation for her to undertake a DBS check. She should check with her employer.

KZNSeagull · Sep 7, 2015

How often is occasionally? Sounds like a right faff just to pick up a child once a week or something.

Lord Bracknell · Sep 7, 2015

KZNSeagull said:
How often is occasionally? Sounds like a right faff just to pick up a child once a week or something.

That seems to make sense. However, we have been told that the transport provision is part of the young woman's employment. Even part-time employment brings obligations to comply with a mass of rules that wouldn't necessarily apply if the arrangement was less formal.

KZNSeagull · Sep 7, 2015

Lord Bracknell said:
That seems to make sense. However, we have been told that the transport provision is part of the young woman's employment. Even part-time employment brings obligations to comply with a mass of rules that wouldn't necessarily apply if the arrangement was less formal.

Ok, thanks. Can I therefore suggest that the arrangement re collecting the child from school occasionally be made less formal!

edna krabappel · Sep 7, 2015

BensGrandad said:
A relative of mine, newly qualified 19 year old driver has taken a part time job that includes picking up a child from school occasionally is she covered on her normal car insurance or does she need other cover. She gets £20 a month petrol money to cover any shopping trips etc. She asked me rather than the company to draw attention to the fact.

I disagree with Lord B's suggestion that she would require hire or reward cover, but yes, absolutely she requires business cover if she's using the vehicle for that purpose. She's being paid by the other party to use the car in the course of her employment.

Put it this way. If- God forbid- she were to be involved in a collision (whether her fault or not) which resulted in that child requiring care or treatment or likely to make some sort of claim against her, the insurer would soon find out the purpose of that journey from the child's parents, even if your relative considers herself a friend of theirs. They may invalidate the policy and refuse to pay your relative for any damage or injury she sustains. Not only could the insurer decline to pay out, but she could leave herself open to other legal action from the parents or guardians.
You mention shopping trips as part of the job: even if it's only that she's using the car for (and not picking the kid up): if it's part of her job, then she needs to have business cover. That's the insurance side of it.

Further to that, if she was to be stopped by the police, for whatever reason, and they were able to establish that the purpose of her journey was for anything other than social, domestic & pleasure use, then she'd be looking at (1) a £300 fixed penalty notice or a court summons; (2) six points on her licence; and (3) the car being seized, with a minimum £150 fee to reclaim it. If she's held her licence for less than two years, then, as a newly qualified driver, those six points will result in her losing the licence and having to retake her test. As a nineteen year old with six points on her licence already, then obtaining cover in future will be a painfully expensive undertaking.

All worst case scenarios of course, but the point is, if she's trying to save herself a few quid now, it might cost her a whole lot more in the long term.

GT49er · Sep 7, 2015

Lord Bracknell said:
If, in the course of her employment, she is carrying a child, there may also be an obligation for her to undertake a DBS check. She should check with her employer.

In some circumstances a DBS check is required, yes. But as far as driving is concerned, business cover IS required. It is remarkable in this day and age that ANY 19 year old can afford to insure themselves to drive - my insurance company (driving safely, no blemishes since 1967) wanted an extra £500 for me to give my 17 year old daughter a few lessons with L plates on!), and my 30 year old daughter was quoted £600 minimum to take out her own insurance, even though she has a clean licence for 12 years. So, to drive the child as part of her job, expect the insurance company to add a few noughts - they're all on the take these days.
But without business cover, she's driving illegally, and isn't insured.

drew · Sep 7, 2015

edna krabappel said:
Put it this way. If- God forbid- she were to be involved in a collision (whether her fault or not) which resulted in that child requiring care or treatment or likely to make some sort of claim against her, the insurer would soon find out the purpose of that journey from the child's parents, even if your relative considers herself a friend of theirs. They may invalidate the policy and refuse to pay your relative for any damage or injury she sustains. Not only could the insurer decline to pay out, but she could leave herself open to other legal action from the parents or guardians. .

I believe the insurers would still have to settle any third party claims but if they void the policy they could seek to recover any outlay from their policyholder.

GT49er · Sep 7, 2015

drew said:
I believe the insurers would still have to settle any third party claims but if they void the policy they could seek to recover any outlay from their policyholder.

Yes, in other words, unless she was insured for business use, she'd be f*****d.

edna krabappel · Sep 8, 2015

drew said:
I believe the insurers would still have to settle any third party claims but if they void the policy they could seek to recover any outlay from their policyholder.

Absolutely: they'd pay out to any others involved but not to his daughter. and then possibly try to reclaim their costs, as you say. Which could be a very expensive error.

blue'n'white · Sep 8, 2015

I'm in a similar situation - I've recently obtained a part time job delivering items for my employer with a van provided.
However yesterday he asked me to use my own car - which I did but I'm feeling now after reading this that I should obtain business insuramce

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