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Question for Labour supporters



A

abc

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2007
1,043
Labour appear to have in Jeremy Corbyn a candidate for the leadership that has grabbed the imagination of many labour supporters to the point that he appears to be the front runner. His political positioning and views may not be to the liking of everyone in the party but that is surely the point of having multiple candidadtes and an election process. How is it then that, in a democratic party, there is a procession of Labour MPs and party members trying to find ways to stop the election happening? This comes across as trying to sabotage the will of 'the people' (in this case 'the people' beiong Labour supporters) because the result may not be to some people's liking,

I would have thought that a major political party who is seen to sabotage or ignore the democratic process is going to be far more unelectable at a General Election than one led by Jeremy Corbyn (if he is indeed unelectable - I think he may surprise a lot of people).

Does this worry you as a Labour supporter or is anything justified to keep Corbyn and his supporters out?

Genuinely intereted...........
 




P

Pogue Mahone

Well-known member
Apr 30, 2011
10,744
It worries me, and I would struggle to vote for a party led by any of the others. Their tactics are unedifying, their policies are Tory lite.
 




G

Gwylan

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
31,339
Uffern
My view is that whoever leads Labour will lose the next election - the arithmetic is against him or her.

But if Corbyn is leader, the party does shift to the left and that will make 2025 much more interesting as a) the Tories will have been in 15 years and only once, since reform, has a party won four terms and b) the landscape will have shifted considerably about 5 million of current voters will have died and there'll be 3.5 million new ones.

And, if projections are correct, we'll have a country where fewer than half of under-40s will be property owners and be paying high rents - that will shift the demographic somewhat
 


glasfryn

glasfryn

cleaning up cat sick
Nov 29, 2005
20,261
somewhere in Eastbourne
to much mish-mash middle of the road politics by both parties tory and Labour, tories have now moved to the right and labour have to have something different to offer other than copying everything the tories do.
a shift to the left will polarize politics and maybe he will get a bigger following than thought
 




M

Machiavelli

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2013
16,654
Fiveways
abc said:
How is it then that, in a democratic party, there is a procession of Labour MPs and party members trying to find ways to stop the election happening? This comes across as trying to sabotage the will of 'the people' (in this case 'the people' beiong Labour supporters) because the result may not be to some people's liking,

I would have thought that a major political party who is seen to sabotage or ignore the democratic process is going to be far more unelectable at a General Election than one led by Jeremy Corbyn (if he is indeed unelectable - I think he may surprise a lot of people).

Does this worry you as a Labour supporter or is anything justified to keep Corbyn and his supporters out?

Genuinely intereted...........
Click to expand...

Barry Sherman was named as one, but you'll have to elaborate on who this procession is, because I have heard little of it. If you're referring to Labour Party members being concerned of malicious entryism, in order to vote for a leader they believe will hinder them, then that's fair play. And I say this as a member of a different party, who considered/is still considering paying £3 to have my twopenneth worth on who their leader should be (and Corbyn, to me, seems like a hopeless throwback, with unreconstructed policies).
 


Cadiz Seagull

Cadiz Seagull

Grey bearded old man
Jul 7, 2003
5,990
Between Haywards Heath and Trujillo, Extremadura,
If Corbyn gets elected then I think labour will have a problem at the next general election. i respect the guy's principles although I don't agree with his views but it is a hard fact that his politics do not have enough mass appeal to win a general election.

If Labour moves more to the left that will leave room for the possibility of a new "New Labour", left of centre but still business friendly. Yes people will get fed up with the Tories especially if there is no creditable electable alternative so there will be a gap in the market. It's happened before with the SDP but they fizzled out.

I wonder if David Milliband has given up on his political ambitions? If he came back and formed a new "new labour" then traditional labour voters who voted for Corbyn certainly wouldn't vote for him. But that doesn't matter. Tony Blair wasn't voted in by traditional voters. It was the floating voters and left wing Tories that swung it for him.

What price for David Milliband for the PM after next? He's got a problem because when Tony Blair stood I'm sure plenty of traditional voters voted for him so he didn't need as many floating voters as Milliband would, as many trditional labour voters would be anti the idea of a Tony Blair mark 2. But Tony Blair was the most successful labour leader ever when it came to winning general elections.
 






V

Vegas Seagull

New member
Jul 10, 2009
7,782
4th thread on Jerry/Labour leader (but none on deputy Tom) keep em coming and keep registering to vote JC - two days left
 


H

Hampster Gull

New member
Dec 22, 2010
13,462
Corbyn is exactly what the Labour party needs. The country will reject this kind of nonsense and it'll be another bloody nose for a party that never learns
 






Uh_huh_him

Uh_huh_him

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2011
10,686
In answer to your question..... no it doesn't worry me particularly. I think the whole process of electing a new leader is damaging for the party.
It really shouldn't take this long to pick out the best candidate.
 


H

Hampster Gull

New member
Dec 22, 2010
13,462
Uh_huh_him said:
In answer to your question..... no it doesn't worry me particularly. I think the whole process of electing a new leader is damaging for the party.
It really shouldn't take this long to pick out the best candidate.
Click to expand...

There arent any good candidates and the party doesnt know where to go. But i agree with your sentiment
 


L

Lincoln Imp

Well-known member
Feb 2, 2009
5,964
Cadiz Seagull said:
If Corbyn gets elected then I think labour will have a problem at the next general election. i respect the guy's principles although I don't agree with his views but it is a hard fact that his politics do not have enough mass appeal to win a general election.

If Labour moves more to the left that will leave room for the possibility of a new "New Labour", left of centre but still business friendly. Yes people will get fed up with the Tories especially if there is no creditable electable alternative so there will be a gap in the market. It's happened before with the SDP but they fizzled out.

I wonder if David Milliband has given up on his political ambitions? If he came back and formed a new "new labour" then traditional labour voters who voted for Corbyn certainly wouldn't vote for him. But that doesn't matter. Tony Blair wasn't voted in by traditional voters. It was the floating voters and left wing Tories that swung it for him.

What price for David Milliband for the PM after next? He's got a problem because when Tony Blair stood I'm sure plenty of traditional voters voted for him so he didn't need as many floating voters as Milliband would, as many trditional labour voters would be anti the idea of a Tony Blair mark 2. But Tony Blair was the most successful labour leader ever when it came to winning general elections.
Click to expand...

I don't think New Labour will be created alongside Old Labour if Corbyn leads the latter but it won't half give a boost to the Liberal Party.
 




Surf's Up

Surf's Up

Well-known member
Jul 17, 2011
10,169
Here
Lincoln Imp said:
I don't think New Labour will be created alongside Old Labour if Corbyn leads the latter but it won't half give a boost to the Liberal Party.
Click to expand...

But only if the Libs have the wit and the politicians to take advantage of the ground that will have been vacated by the Tories and Labour as those two parties lurch to the right and the left respectively.
 


G

Gwylan

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
31,339
Uffern
Surf's Up said:
But only if the Libs have the wit and the politicians to take advantage of the ground that will have been vacated by the Tories and Labour as those two parties lurch to the right and the left respectively.
Click to expand...

There was clear ground between Labour and the Tories in the 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s and 70s - yet the Liberals made virtually no impression. Why should there be a difference this time?
 


Stat Brother

Stat Brother

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
73,735
West west west Sussex
I'm surprised neither this or the actual Corbyn thread has made any reference to JC's interview with Stephen Nolan on Radio Ulster/5 Live.

JC refused to denounce the actions of the IRA, causing a right old tizzy on the phone lines.
It nicely coincided with the post AMEX drive home.
I actually thought JC came out of it well, although a little surprised he didn't take bait and say he was against terrorism.


'Oddly' nobody was prepared to link the current state of the planet with not listening to terrorists.
 


Cadiz Seagull

Cadiz Seagull

Grey bearded old man
Jul 7, 2003
5,990
Between Haywards Heath and Trujillo, Extremadura,
Lincoln Imp said:
I don't think New Labour will be created alongside Old Labour if Corbyn leads the latter but it won't half give a boost to the Liberal Party.
Click to expand...

The Liberals are the obvious people to take the left of centre ground where the next non-Tory Government will come from.

But at the moment they don't have the personnel or the image. i don't even know the name of their leader and I wouldn't be able to pick him or her out of a line up.

That's just about the most important thing for a political party with aspirations of power.

Like it or not, these days a wanna be Prime Minister has to be great on TV. Policies are to a degree secondary. That's a bad thing and I wish it wasn't like that but it is. A bad TV performer with unpopular - to the majority - policies has no chance. A good TV performer with unpopular policies just might make it as long as the policies are not too extreme. Unfortunately blandness is very important.

The Lib dems got a real tonking, they were blamed - unfairly in my opinion in many cases - for so many things that happened in the last Government and they didn't really seem to want to stand up and fight. Someone once said the Liberals are happier being an opposition party, they don't feel comfortable with the responsibility of power and I think there is some truth in this.

So unless a dynamic leader comes through I don't see them filling that gap in the centre.

The EU referndum could cause problems for the Conservatives, if we leave Europe there are going to be quite a few Tories looking for a new political home. personally I think the referendum will vote to stay but you never know. But if we do leave then the party could split and the left wing Conservatives could merge with the right wing Labour and there's your new centre ground winning party.

Who could then vote to rejoin!

God help us all!
 




looney

looney

Banned
Jul 7, 2003
15,652
Cadiz Seagull said:
.

The EU referndum could cause problems for the Conservatives, if we leave Europe there are going to be quite a few Tories looking for a new political home. personally I think the referendum will vote to stay but you never know. But if we do leave then the party could split and the left wing Conservatives could merge with the right wing Labour and there's your new centre ground winning party.

Who could then vote to rejoin!

God help us all!
Click to expand...

Erm this split you lefties keep banging on about, its about 5% pro-euro, the labour party is more riven with splits. Ive read the analyses in this thread and a lot of it is clueless grasping especially when the point moves away from the "labour core".
 


C

cunning fergus

Well-known member
Jan 18, 2009
4,747
Cadiz Seagull said:
The Liberals are the obvious people to take the left of centre ground where the next non-Tory Government will come from.

But at the moment they don't have the personnel or the image. i don't even know the name of their leader and I wouldn't be able to pick him or her out of a line up.

That's just about the most important thing for a political party with aspirations of power.

Like it or not, these days a wanna be Prime Minister has to be great on TV. Policies are to a degree secondary. That's a bad thing and I wish it wasn't like that but it is. A bad TV performer with unpopular - to the majority - policies has no chance. A good TV performer with unpopular policies just might make it as long as the policies are not too extreme. Unfortunately blandness is very important.

The Lib dems got a real tonking, they were blamed - unfairly in my opinion in many cases - for so many things that happened in the last Government and they didn't really seem to want to stand up and fight. Someone once said the Liberals are happier being an opposition party, they don't feel comfortable with the responsibility of power and I think there is some truth in this.

So unless a dynamic leader comes through I don't see them filling that gap in the centre.

The EU referndum could cause problems for the Conservatives, if we leave Europe there are going to be quite a few Tories looking for a new political home. personally I think the referendum will vote to stay but you never know. But if we do leave then the party could split and the left wing Conservatives could merge with the right wing Labour and there's your new centre ground winning party.

Who could then vote to rejoin!

God help us all!
Click to expand...



With the rise of Corbyn Labour is already showing its own problems in dealing with the EU and proof that euro scepticism is not the preserve of the tories.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...or-eu-exit-under-his-leadership-10448877.html

The reality is that for many on the left the EU is (and has always been) in thrall to global business interests, and the treatment of a left wing Greek government is merely franking that view.

The new left wing paradigm especially amongst the young is still global in outlook, however the EU is part of the Neo liberal establishment implementing austerity, things like TTIP could tip the referendum over the edge, with (hopefully) Corbyn leading the charge to the exit.
 


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