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Jeremy Corbyn.



C

cunning fergus

Well-known member
Jan 18, 2009
4,745
wellquickwoody said:
Had a discussion with a Labour supporting pal yesterday, and we agreed on the following:

The NHS is Labour's crowning glory, it would never have happened under the Tories.

Labour have improved the lot of the working/lower classes immeasurably since their inception.

Labour have proven themselves incapable of running a balanced economy on more than one occasion.

Old Labour are becoming irrelevant, as they really do not have a cause to fight any longer as our standards of living are so much higher for the majority of people now when compared to the past.

If Jeremy Corbyn becomes Labour leader it will split the party in the medium term, which may well happen anyway. The Labour party, in its current form, is on borrowed time.
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As a point of historical fact I think you are overstating the creation of the NHS as a Labour strategy.

The Second World War meant the country needed a universal medical system to cope with emergencies and this was created by a coalition Govt. The Tories in fact tabled a white paper in 44 that outlined how the system should continue in the post war environment.

This paper sought to place the health systems that had been created in WW2 under the control of local authorities. It was largely supported by all parties, however Bevan took that view and "nationalised" it.

All parties accepted the principle that the British public would not stand for the complete removal of the health system created to help cope with the consequences of (say) bombing.

If anyone deserves thanks for starting the NHS maybe you should look to that nice Mr Hitler.
 




K

knocky1

Well-known member
Jan 20, 2010
12,965
cunning fergus said:
As a point of historical fact I think you are overstating the creation of the NHS as a Labour strategy.

The Second World War meant the country needed a universal medical system to cope with emergencies and this was created by a coalition Govt. The Tories in fact tabled a white paper in 44 that outlined how the system should continue in the post war environment.

This paper sought to place the health systems that had been created in WW2 under the control of local authorities. It was largely supported by all parties, however Bevan took that view and "nationalised" it.

All parties accepted the principle that the British public would not stand for the complete removal of the health system created to help cope with the consequences of (say) bombing.

If anyone deserves thanks for starting the NHS maybe you should look to that nice Mr Hitler.
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I agree, for once. The Tories had been discussing a Free health service throughout the early 40s. It was to be local authority run rather than Nationalised. Same concept though.
 


Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
59,523
The Fatherland
cunning fergus said:
If anyone deserves thanks for starting the NHS maybe you should look to that nice Mr Hitler.
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I'd never really thought of this but I'll certainly now add the NHS to my list of German success stories. I'll file it between Mini Cooper and Rolls Royce.
 


K

knocky1

Well-known member
Jan 20, 2010
12,965
Herr Tubthumper said:
I'd never really thought of this but I'll certainly now add the NHS to my list of German success stories. I'll file it between Mini Cooper and Rolls Royce.
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Apparently, the SS had incredible success treating aphasia. They just said "Ve have vays of making you talk".
 
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drew

drew

Drew
Oct 3, 2006
23,053
Burgess Hill
knocky1 said:
I agree, for once. The Tories had been discussing a Free health service throughout the early 40s. It was to be local authority run rather than Nationalised. Same concept though.
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Don't you mean a coalition government were discussing the free health service! Seems very strange that the Tories never lay claim to this revelation.
 




D

Diablo

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 22, 2014
4,187
lewes
It seems many labour MP backers of "Corbyn" perhaps after reading NSC are withdrawing their support as they like most on here realise that a lurch to the left would be spell disaster at the Polls.
 


glasfryn

glasfryn

cleaning up cat sick
Nov 29, 2005
20,261
somewhere in Eastbourne
It does seem to me that the tories on here are discussing Corbyn more than most, maybe he will be the next Labour leader maybe he won't, but I see him at this moment in time the only one who has the backbone to stand up to this very right wing government.
Politics in this country seems to be polarising and people who say nobody will vote in a left wing party should look north to the SNP a very left wing party who have swept all before them.
whoever wins this contest I just hope they have a backbone and do not dither in the abstention rooms of parliament like some have in the last week, you cannot fight the tories in there
 


C

cheshunt seagull

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
2,496
I wish I was intelligent enough to write a book on it (which I'm not) - but I believe we are in a weird period of our history where the capitalist individualism of the 1980s has even infected even those of a left wing persuasion.




I think you make an interesting point about individualism. My sense is that there is as strong a desire for social justice (clunky term I know) as ever but that this does not equate with a trust in for a centralised state response to all issues. In many ways I think size may actually matter as people will view a local social enterprise initiative far more positively than a national scheme, with a quango and a czar. I think there is a similar feeling towards business where large corporates are viewed with suspicion but innovative SMEs seen as being key to the nation’s future

How the Labour Party finds a policy which looks to build and sustain infrastructure on a national level for things like transport but which also aims to stimulate, and unlike the Big Society actually invest in, a more distributed model of local initiatives to address other societal issues is key to the future; none of the candidates seems to really address this. The only one that alludes to it is Kendall but her style is jarring. Corbyn wins hands down on integrity but shows little awareness of how public attitudes are changing. I am speaking as a Labour Party member and right now I have no idea who to vote for.
 




D

Dandyman

In London village.
Jul 7, 2003
7,949
London, United Kingdom, United Kingdom
clapham_gull said:
I just can't and didn't swallow the hypocrisy of attacking people trying to negotiate peace publicly whilst others were doing behind closed doors whilst pretending to the public at large it wasn't happening.
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Spot on. In 1972 Lord Whitelaw, then Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, had a group of republican leaders, including Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness, flown to London for secret talks in Chelsea. There were repeated contacts with PIRA and Loyalist terrorists throughout The Troubles. Anyone who thinks the GFA would have been possible otherwise is in fantasy land.

And just as a flag to the usual right-wingers who take this as "approval" of terrorists. On 03 December 1990 PIRA murdered the uncle of one of my god-children. I still support the British government having met with them and negotiated the GFA.
 


V

Vegas Seagull

New member
Jul 10, 2009
7,782
Diablo said:
It seems many labour MP backers of "Corbyn" perhaps after reading NSC are withdrawing their support as they like most on here realise that a lurch to the left would be spell disaster at the Polls.
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The Hypocrisy is unbelievable, Dinosaur Margaret Beckett would rather wind back the clock so that the 43% who want to vote for Legend Jezzer would not even be able to express their opinions. Shambolic & shameful

Jezwecan
 


D

DataPoint

Well-known member
Mar 31, 2015
432
Mustafa said:
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Oh! Dear Mustafa. Jeremy’s speech! So self-righteousness – so religious. Every thought Jeremy espouses has an alternative analysis and solution. It’s all about Judgement.

What is your favourite by the way? Would you like me to offer a counter idea?
 




Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
59,523
The Fatherland
Dandyman said:
Spot on. In 1972 Lord Whitelaw, then Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, had a group of republican leaders, including Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness, flown to London for secret talks in Chelsea. There were repeated contacts with PIRA and Loyalist terrorists throughout The Troubles. Anyone who thinks the GFA would have been possible otherwise is in fantasy land.

And just as a flag to the usual right-wingers who take this as "approval" of terrorists. On 03 December 1990 PIRA murdered the uncle of one of my god-children. I still support the British government having met with them and negotiated the GFA.
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Well put. Interesting to hear the opinion of someone actually affected by the IRA as opposed to the usual frothy mouthed Little Englanders.
 


Beach Hut

Beach Hut

Brighton Bhuna Boy
Jul 5, 2003
71,966
Living In a Box
If Corbyn wins the leadership race it will ensure 10 years in the wilderness politically for the Labour Party
 


fataddick

fataddick

Well-known member
Feb 6, 2004
1,602
The seaside.
Capitalism is finished. The banking bailouts are all the evidence you need of that. Worldwide we are seeing a huge shift in public opinion towards socialism, even in countries like America (where the word has been virtually a swearword since McCarthy) where support for Bernie Sanders is growing day by day. Opinion polls place the majority of the British people as further left than all major parties but the Greens. Corbyn is the only person offering things like renationalising the railways that 85% of the British public (in opinion polls) want. Rest assured the Labour Party will be in the political wilderness if they DON'T elect Corbyn - he's the only one of the four enough in tune with shifting public opinion to make Labour credible again.
 






D

Diablo

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 22, 2014
4,187
lewes
Albumen said:
At least we'll see what will happen when a politician that speaks from the heart and for the majority of people gets some power..No wonder the Tories are worried
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Surely most politicians speak from the heart...They just like us have differing opinions.. Your "speaks for the majority of people" if 100% of Labour voters supported him which they don`t he would still be speaking for minority.

And your final words "No wonder the Tories are worried".. I imagine tories cock a hoop if Corbyn elected leader.
 


D

DataPoint

Well-known member
Mar 31, 2015
432
fataddick said:
Capitalism is finished. The banking bailouts are all the evidence you need of that. Worldwide we are seeing a huge shift in public opinion towards socialism, even in countries like America (where the word has been virtually a swearword since McCarthy) where support for Bernie Sanders is growing day by day. Opinion polls place the majority of the British people as further left than all major parties but the Greens. Corbyn is the only person offering things like renationalising the railways that 85% of the British public (in opinion polls) want. Rest assured the Labour Party will be in the political wilderness if they DON'T elect Corbyn - he's the only one of the four enough in tune with shifting public opinion to make Labour credible again.
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And after a few years of Nationalised Railways 85% will want them privatised again! That's railways for yer.
 






B

BLOCK F

Well-known member
Feb 26, 2009
6,350
fataddick said:
Capitalism is finished. The banking bailouts are all the evidence you need of that. Worldwide we are seeing a huge shift in public opinion towards socialism, even in countries like America (where the word has been virtually a swearword since McCarthy) where support for Bernie Sanders is growing day by day. Opinion polls place the majority of the British people as further left than all major parties but the Greens. Corbyn is the only person offering things like renationalising the railways that 85% of the British public (in opinion polls) want. Rest assured the Labour Party will be in the political wilderness if they DON'T elect Corbyn - he's the only one of the four enough in tune with shifting public opinion to make Labour credible again.
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Wind up or you are seriously deluded, Charlton Man.
 




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