Paddy Ashdown on David Cameron

Nibble · Jul 22, 2015

http://i100.independent.co.uk/artic...wn-has-to-say-about-david-cameron--ZJUgciVHXe

I personally think Cameron has more of agenda but Paddy's summary of Cameron's achievements in 70 days is quite the tonic.

Cue the endless "Tory bashing is getting boring now, just accept the vote" comments from the usual suspects. :wink:

Buzzer · Jul 22, 2015

Never trust a man who welches on his bets.

Nibble · Jul 22, 2015

Buzzer said:
Never trust a man who welches on his bets.

Didn't say I trusted him, I said I thought his statement was a tonic.

Notters · Jul 22, 2015

They're government are doing a good job of showing what a moderating force the lib dems were previously. Shame a lot of people couldn't see that.

That intial comment was a bit daft though wasn't it:

While I'm not a Lib Dem, my favourite aspect of the Lib Dems is their focus on freedom

Er that's what liberalism is.

Buzzer · Jul 22, 2015

Nibble said:
Didn't say I trusted him, I said I thought his statement was a tonic.

Tonic? It's just the same old, same old. Bloke who doesn't like the Tories writes something bad about the Tories. Someone else who doesn't like the Tories reads the article and concurs. I doubt it's changed your opinion one iota.

Nibble · Jul 22, 2015

Buzzer said:
Tonic? It's just the same old, same old. Bloke who doesn't like the Tories writes something bad about the Tories. Someone else who doesn't like the Tories reads the article and concurs. I doubt it's changed your opinion one iota.

You are a fairly intelligent person judging by some of your posts on here. However, where you continually fail is when someone has an opinion you don't like you write the whole lot off as sour grapes. Not just with politics but with most topics on here. It's a shame as you are halfway there to making some very good points a lot of the time.

Buzzer · Jul 22, 2015

Nibble said:
You are a fairly intelligent person judging by some of your posts on here. However, where you continually fail is when someone has an opinion you don't like you write the whole lot off as sour grapes. Not just with politics but with most topics on here. It's a shame as you are halfway there to making some very good points a lot of the time.

Eh? It's not sour grapes at all. What have I to be sour about? I've not said anything that's untrue - both you and Paddy Ashdown dislike the Tories and so it's obvious that if he writes an article slagging off the Tories that you'll agree. We all do it. I read Daniel Hannan and think the bloke is spot on, you read Paddy Ashdown and think likewise. We're both just re-affirming our own worldview with the opinions of others who we agree with.

I sincerely doubt that you read that article and thought "well that's refreshing...now I've seen the Tories in a different light and I don't like it".

Nibble · Jul 22, 2015

Buzzer said:
Eh? It's not sour grapes at all. What have I to be sour about? I've not said anything that's untrue - both you and Paddy Ashdown dislike the Tories and so it's obvious that if he writes an article slagging off the Tories that you'll agree. We all do it. I read Daniel Hannan and think the bloke is spot on, you read Paddy Ashdown and think likewise. We're both just re-affirming our own worldview with the opinions of others who we agree with.

I sincerely doubt that you read that article and thought "well that's refreshing...now I've seen the Tories in a different light and I don't like it".

You misunderstand, I said you dismiss other's opinions as sour grapes, not that you are sour.

It did actually make me think "Hmm, has Cameron got a malicious agenda or is it really a series of bumbles"? Ultimately I think he has a malicious agenda but nice to think about another possibility for a moment.

Stop going after the poster and try and form an opinion on what has been posted.

Triggaaar · Jul 22, 2015

Paddy wanted us to join the monumental **** up that is the single currency. Now he wants to criticise the PM for giving British people the right to vote on whether we stay part of the EU. And he thinks he's much smarter than the PM. I think I'll ignore him.

Nibble said:
Stop going after the poster and try and form an opinion on what has been posted.

That comment is fairly undermined by this one:

Nibble said:
You are a fairly intelligent person judging by some of your posts on here. However, where you continually fail is when someone has an opinion you don't like you write the whole lot off as sour grapes. Not just with politics but with most topics on here. It's a shame as you are halfway there to making some very good points a lot of the time.

Will trying to patronise those that disagree with you help your argument?

Buzzer · Jul 22, 2015

Nibble said:
You misunderstand, I said you dismiss other's opinions as sour grapes, not that you are sour.

It did actually make me think "Hmm, has Cameron got a malicious agenda or is it really a series of bumbles"? Ultimately I think he has a malicious agenda but nice to think about another possibility for a moment.

Stop going after the poster and try and form an opinion on what has been posted.

"Going after the poster". It's going to be one of those days...I think I'll respectfully bow out now.

Herr Tubthumper · Jul 22, 2015

Buzzer said:
"Going after the poster". It's going to be one of those days...I think I'll respectfully bow out now.

Come on, you know you often play the man and not the ball.

Nibble · Jul 22, 2015

Buzzer said:
"Going after the poster". It's going to be one of those days...I think I'll respectfully bow out now.

Aloof and intelligent are not the same thing.

Simster · Jul 22, 2015

Herr Tubthumper said:
Come on, you know you often play the man and not the ball.

He does at times, but he is absolutely spot-on here though.

Herr Tubthumper · Jul 22, 2015

Simster said:
He does at times, but he is absolutely spot-on here though.

I disagree. It looks like a case of wanting an argument with Nibble. Little else.

Simster · Jul 22, 2015

Herr Tubthumper said:
I disagree. It looks like a case of wanting an argument with Nibble. Little else.

Not really. He's taken issue with Nibble that Ashdown's comments were "a tonic". They're clearly nothing of the sort.

Not Andy Naylor · Jul 22, 2015

Anyway, back to the Ashdown assessment of Cameron. Spot on, although I'd be surprised if many people are only just waking up to that.

His most interesting point, and one that had occurred to me, is that Cameron's unthinking opportunism makes him more dangerous than Thatcher. She was evil, but she had a vision and believed in certain things, and knew how far to go. She, for instance, knew that rail privatisation would be unwise, although finally her judgement began to go (the Poll Tax being the best example).

Cameron has no beliefs at all and will do or say anything that he thinks his supporters might want to hear. The trouble with this back-of-an-envelope approach is that the consequences and the costs have not been thought out at all.

Nibble · Jul 22, 2015

It's a tonic in the sense that it's not the usual rabble rousers on the street or the Russell Brands of this world on a rant but rather a respected individual making a much needed commentary on why Cameron is a dangerous man without bemoaning the whole voting system and failure of democracy that got the Tories elected. One doesn't have to agree with it, I for one find Cameron to be more shrewd that is being suggested by Ashdown. However, that is why I find it a breath of fresh air, a tonic if you will. I know some won't.

If I could edit my OP I would end it with the question: Cameron, bumbling fool or shrewd mover? That might take the focus off the "Tonic" word that people have picked up on. But I didn't.

beorhthelm · Jul 22, 2015

in 70 days (just 70 days) he has put the Union at risk, ditto our future in Europe, placed a charge of dynamite under our constitution with [EVEL] and put a noose around the neck of the BBC.

i'd be impressed if he had done any of that, but apart from the BBC item (which is under a cabinet portfolio), he hasnt "done" any of those things, they are predictions of the future outcomes. yes, Cameron is ushering us towards English votes which is a jolly good thing, and preparing us to stay in the full blooded EU (bad imo). so, like his guessing at election outcomes, Paddy has missed the mark by a wide margin.

(fair point on how Paddy has said it)

Not Andy Naylor · Jul 22, 2015

beorhthelm said:
i'd be impressed if he had done any of that, but apart from the BBC item (which is under a cabinet portfolio), he hasnt "done" any of those things, they are predictions of the future outcomes. yes, Cameron is ushering us towards English votes which is a jolly good thing, and preparing us to stay in the full blooded EU (bad imo). so, like his guessing at election outcomes, Paddy has missed the mark by a wide margin.

(fair point on how Paddy has said it)

The EU thing is typical - plenty of bluff and bluster about getting "a good deal for Britain" until the EU leaders politely told him where to stick it, and at which point we hear no more about it, and won't until the referendum rolls around. By then he'll hope everyone has forgotten.

But of course, Paddy is not the only one who is bad at guessing election outcomes. Cameron thought he was in for another coalition at best, and then there was this (caution advised unless you have a strong stomach): http://www.theguardian.com/politics...rne-kissing-lynton-crosby-election-win-tories

Chicken Run · Jul 22, 2015

Nibble said:
You are a fairly intelligent person judging by some of your posts on here. However, where you continually fail is when someone has an opinion you don't like you write the whole lot off as sour grapes. Not just with politics but with most topics on here. It's a shame as you are halfway there to making some very good points a lot of the time.

Oh the irony.

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