Bolton to voluntarily downgrade their academy from Cat 1 to Cat 2

Bozza · Jun 12, 2015

Bolton aside, this is an interesting article on the financial costs of Cat 1 v Cat 2 and the benefits of each...

"The original Elite Player Performance Plan recommended Category One clubs had an estimated annual budget of around £2.4million for their academy, reduced to just under £1m for Category Two clubs."

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/13328157.Wanderers_to_save_cash_in_Academy_shake_up/?ref=twtrec

SAC · Jun 12, 2015

£2.5 million a year means a lot of pressure to get three or four decent prospects each year just to break even. Dropping to Cat 2, I believe, makes it easier for bigger clubs to poach your best talent and presumably makes the academy less able to attract that best talent.

BigGully · Jun 12, 2015

Well it depends how the clubs perceives itself, if they recruit from the top down ( buying in ready made players ) then there is little point in having a dedicated Academy policy, with it's associated costs.

For Bolton it doesnt look like it shows much value for money or perhaps they just havent got the money anyhow.

It can at times look a little extravagant, watching our own young players board a luxury coach, travel halfway up the country, check into a luxury hotel and in for evening meal before a good nights sleep, wake up pile into the restaurant for brekkie or lunch before going to play against another similar team with a couple of hundred people at some nondescript conference ground, before jumping back into the coach, ready made meals and videos at the ready to then travel through the night back to Lancing.

I know it is meant to mirror a first team experience, but quite frankly you sometimes wonder within the spectrum of players development with all of its uncertainties, just how spending vast amounts of money on the more peripheral elements of competing at Cat 1 level is vanity rather than developmental.

nwgull · Jun 12, 2015

So a difference of 1.4m a year between Cat 1 and Cat 2. Just one transfer fee from a young player could cover that for several years.

Also worth noting that costs relating to academies don't get included in the annual FFP calc.

Blue Valkyrie · Jun 12, 2015

Maybe this is where they are finding the cash to sign Enrich*

* if he does actually go to them.

Ernest · Jun 12, 2015

BigGully said:
Well it depends how the clubs perceives itself, if they recruit from the top down ( buying in ready made players ) then there is little point in having a dedicated Academy policy, with it's associated costs.

For Bolton it doesnt look like it shows much value for money or perhaps they just havent got the money anyhow.

It can at times look a little extravagant, watching our own young players board a luxury coach, travel halfway up the country, check into a luxury hotel and in for evening meal before a good nights sleep, wake up pile into the restaurant for brekkie or lunch before going to play against another similar team with a couple of hundred people at some nondescript conference ground, before jumping back into the coach, ready made meals and videos at the ready to then travel through the night back to Lancing.

I know it is meant to mirror a first team experience, but quite frankly you sometimes wonder within the spectrum of players development with all of its uncertainties, just how spending vast amounts of money on the more peripheral elements of competing at Cat 1 level is vanity rather than developmental.

Sounds more vanity than developmental, they should be proving themselves before they get that sort of treatment

Acker79 · Jun 12, 2015

It might also be worth noting the location and relative proximity to manchester and liverpool. There will be more competition for the kids in the area so Bolton are probably going to struggle to entice the better kids they could sell to pay the bills.

BigGully · Jun 12, 2015

nwgull said:
So a difference of 1.4m a year between Cat 1 and Cat 2. Just one transfer fee from a young player could cover that for several years.

Also worth noting that costs relating to academies don't get included in the annual FFP calc.

I think the issue is whether Cat 1 with some of its extravagances is the main reason for developing that player worth £5 000 000.

I agree it has a role to play in recruitment and retention within the academy system but if you suspect that ultimately you lose out before you have even begun with a talented 10 year old it tends to lose its gloss.

The costs itself usually just retains your position in the pecking order that you had before the vast financial commitment was ever implemented.

Blue Valkyrie · Jun 12, 2015

It's not just about selling on young players.

Each good academy star that makes the squad is one less journeyman you have to finance.

skipper734 · Jun 12, 2015

It's a Business. Given the startup money, it should then finance itself.

Beach Hut · Jun 12, 2015

Acker79 said:
It might also be worth noting the location and relative proximity to manchester and liverpool. There will be more competition for the kids in the area so Bolton are probably going to struggle to entice the better kids they could sell to pay the bills.

I would say that is the primary driver for this, they have huge competition from clubs that they cannot compete with, any good academy players they ever get would be off within 5 minutes of contact from either EFC, LFC, MUFC or MCFC

BigGully · Jun 12, 2015

Beach Hut said:
I would say that is the primary driver for this, they have huge competition from clubs that they cannot compete with, any good academy players they ever get would be off within 5 minutes of contact from either EFC, LFC, MUFC or MCFC

I agree, but why do so many not lend the same analysis to us, with one of the biggest cities in the world a stones throw away to our north, with a number of bigger better clubs and Academy's too.

Why are we likely to recruit and retain a talent that is good enough for Arsenal, Tottenham, West Ham, Chelsea, where others cannot ?

8ace · Jun 12, 2015

BigGully said:
I agree, but why do so many not lend the same analysis to us, with one of the biggest cities in the world a stones throw away to our north, with a number of bigger better clubs and Academy's too.

Why are we likely to recruit and retain a talent that is good enough for Arsenal, Tottenham, West Ham, Chelsea, where others cannot ?

Bit of a difference between 10 miles away and 50 miles away.

Acker79 · Jun 12, 2015

BigGully said:
I agree, but why do so many not lend the same analysis to us, with one of the biggest cities in the world a stones throw away to our north, with a number of bigger better clubs and Academy's too.

Why are we likely to recruit and retain a talent that is good enough for Arsenal, Tottenham, West Ham, Chelsea, where others cannot ?

It will be a compromise between prestige and proximity for all local talents. The distance between us and london is more than double that between Bolton and Manchester, so proximity will get a heavier weighting for kids in our area. There's also a chance that for some prospects, team allegiance can come into it.

There will be exceptions. Some would still take the prestige of Arsenal over the proximity of Brighton, and some will take the the proximity of Bolton over the prestige of Manchester, some will give more weight to quality of academy over team allegiance and vice versa.

You also need to look both ways. It's not just 'where would a prospect go?', there's also the idea that all those clubs will have multiple local scouts looking for local talent, so there is competition to spot the kids in the first place. Not just scouts, but fans who like to send clubs suggestions of players to check out. Bensgrandad has mentioned making suggestions to the club, being in contact with various scouts. Every club will have fans like that.

While bigger clubs can afford more scouts, so might have some prem scouts looking in "our area", there is almost certainly less competition. We are more likely to find talents that haven't been spotted by London clubs that might otherwise compete with us.

It's not just big teams that Bolton will be competing with, these are the league teams in the area of Bolton:
Man Utd,
Man City
Liverpool,
Wigan,
Bury,
Rochdale,
Oldham,
Blackburn,
Preston,
Burnley.
Accrington

Around us there's
Crawley.
Portsmouth
Southampton

So, while we won't have a monopoly on our little corner of the country and we are likely to miss out on some players, proximity and team allegiance will be more weighted in our favour than for a lot of other clubs like Bolton.

Seasidesage · Jun 12, 2015

Much more likely in Bolton case is that they are skint and are freeing up as much money as possible to go for Promotion...

Mr Putdown · Jun 12, 2015

Acker79 said:
Around us there's
Crawley.
Portsmouth
Southampton

So, while we won't have a monopoly on our little corner of the country and we are likely to miss out on some players, proximity and team allegiance will be more weighted in our favour than for a lot of other clubs like Bolton.

Any reason why you haven't included Palace, Millwall, Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham, West Ham, Fulham, Charlton and even Watford, all of which are as close or nearer than Southampton is to Falmer?

BigGully · Jun 12, 2015

8ace said:
Bit of a difference between 10 miles away and 50 miles away.

So how long a drive from say Bhill to Cobham ??

If you accept that a Bolton youngster (family) are willing to move for a bigger club 10 miles away, is it likely a similar minded family wouldnt make the trip to one of the bigger clubs in London 20, 30 or 40 miles away, I think they might.

I actually know three Sussex based kids that left, albeit at a time when Brighton was a less sophisticated training centre and cannot recall one kid that had a genuine interest from a bigger club that has turned it down, although I accept with the new training ground there be a greater chance of talking them round, but even then Premier League clubs have ways to ease any doubts.

NooBHA · Jun 12, 2015

Category 1 or category 2 is irrellevant I think.

Every academy in the country should produce a minimum of 2 players breaking into the first team squad every year. Around 15 years ago Millwall went into administration and and were forced to let there full first team squad go.

They then promoted their full Academy to the first team bar a few. That Academy team produced Lucas Neil, Tom Cahill, Steven Reid, Richard Sadlier and Paul Ifill, all of whom went on to become full Internationals Premiership players except Sadlier who never played in the Premiership butwould have done if his career had not ended prematurely.

Clubs are too scared to take the chance with youth players but when they are forced to then it can produce amazing results. The TV money is great for clubs but it makes the stakes too costly dfor the development of talent.

Perhaps there should be something which states that a percentage of TV money should go towards the cost ov Youth Development

Acker79 · Jun 12, 2015

Mr Putdown said:
Any reason why you haven't included Palace, Millwall, Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham, West Ham, Fulham, Charlton and even Watford, all of which are as close or nearer than Southampton is to Falmer?

I only included southampton because it was so close to portsmouth, not because of it's distance to us. You can strike them from the list if you like.

Acker79 · Jun 12, 2015

BigGully said:
So how long a drive from say Bhill to Cobham ??

If you accept that a Bolton youngster (family) are willing to move for a bigger club 10 miles away, is it likely a similar minded family wouldnt make the trip to one of the bigger clubs in London 20, 30 or 40 miles away, I think they might.

The point is that ten miles away means they wouldn't have to move.

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