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If it wasn't for Stanley, Archer and Bellotti, where would the Albion be now?



Bozza

You can change this
Helpful Moderator
Jul 4, 2003
55,575
Back in Sussex
It's interesting to reflect on where the club may be, both in terms of where we call 'home' and league standing.

Is it possible that in some bizarre way, what those 3 men tried to do to our football club improved it, ultimately or would we have had something similar to what we have now, regardless?
 


drew

Drew
Oct 3, 2006
23,007
Burgess Hill
Possibly lurking in the lower reaches of the league in a 10,000 seat stadium. As disastrous for the club as they were at the time, they did galvanise, unwittingly, a renaissance in the spirit of the club which has led us to where we are now.
 


Bob!

Coffee Buyer
Jul 5, 2003
11,061
We'd probably be in a 15,000 capacity all seated Goldstone Ground in League one.
 


beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,265
far too many possible scenarios to consider. however i think given the condition and location of the Goldstone we'd have moved out.
 


Blue Valkyrie

Not seen such Bravery!
Sep 1, 2012
32,165
Valhalla
I imagine we would be in a smaller ground, lower down the league. On the other hand, someone may have bought us and moved us to the Brighton station site before it was developed ?

No one knows, but they deserve no credit whatever the outcome.
 




Stat Brother

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Jul 11, 2003
73,371
West west west Sussex
Them bringing the club to it's knees did delay the 'phoenix rising from the ashes'.

Loathe it or hate it, soccerball is in a considerably better place than it was 20+ years ago.
Had any of the Archer lies actually been based in fact, or if Archer did have the clubs best interests at heart the club wouldn't be where it is now.

We've always been a division 3 or 4 club, and I just don't see how the club would have kicked on from say '91 to eclipse the position it's in now.

Had Archer/another owner built The Riverside Stadium here things might have been different.
But we all know the club would have ended up with a good bottom 2 division ground and had the ambitions and fan base to match.
 
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Man of Harveys

Well-known member
Jul 9, 2003
18,731
Brighton, UK
Playing at a new ground, no question.

Other grounds that were much easier to adapt to all-seater than the Goldstone - Huddersfield/Southampton/Sunderland all spring to mind - have been knocked down. It's just easier and cheaper to start again and the old place would have had its day anyway, overtaken by events. In the light of what happened, it's perhaps easy to forget how frequently the prospect of moving a new ground was discussed during the 80s, say.

But obviously things throughout could have been done properly, from a position of strength, without a lot of heartache and a hell of a lot more quickly. So f**k 'em.
 


Papa Lazarou

Living in a De Zerbi wonderland
Jul 7, 2003
18,840
Worthing
far too many possible scenarios to consider. however i think given the condition and location of the Goldstone we'd have moved out.

I wonder if without the lack of a home there would the same drive and local support for a new stadium. It's a very interesting 'alternative history' scenario.

If we'd stayed at the Goldstone I personally feel we'd still be there, after decades or trying to get council / govt support for our preferred site for a new ground.

We'd be in League 1, but unable to compete with the bigger clubs who have a larger capacity then our modest 12k.

As aluded to by [MENTION=6886]Bozza[/MENTION] perhaps, unwittingly, Archer / Stanley & Bellotti may have done us a massive favour long term.

That aside, I soooooo miss the Goldstone - all of the football since has to one extent or another felt 'false' or unreal, as deep in my heart The Goldstone IS our home.

It may have been old and dilapidated for most of my supporting life, but it had massive character and the atmosphere, when everything was right was amazing. I'll definitely miss the years I spent watching from the North Stand, and I doubt I'll ever get that experience again - football has moved on.
 




symyjym

Banned
Nov 2, 2009
13,138
Brighton / Hove actually
Playing at a new ground, no question.

Other grounds that were much easier to adapt to all-seater than the Goldstone - Huddersfield/Southampton/Sunderland all spring to mind - have been knocked down. It's just easier and cheaper to start again and the old place would have had its day anyway, overtaken by events. In the light of what happened, it's perhaps easy to forget how frequently the prospect of moving a new ground was discussed during the 80s, say.

But obviously things throughout could have been done properly, from a position of strength, without a lot of heartache and a hell of a lot more quickly. So f**k 'em.

Agree. The Goldstone was past its sell by date and any serious development was compromised by the shape of the site.

The biggest issue was the club not making any money out of it. I think it was sold for £9m and sold again a few months later for £18m (or something like).
 


Papa Lazarou

Living in a De Zerbi wonderland
Jul 7, 2003
18,840
Worthing
Agree. The Goldstone was past its sell by date and any serious development was compromised by the shape of the site.

The biggest issue was the club not making any money out of it. I think it was sold for £9m and sold again a few months later for £18m (or something like).

sold for 7.4M to Chartwell, and sold on for £23.86M to Abbey Group.
 
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Hotchilidog

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2009
8,645
In all probability bumbling along at level below where we are now in a far more modest stadium.

However, this does not turn this trio into unlikely heroes. Our current position is down to first of all the fighting spirit of the fans, the rescue job performed by Dick Knight, and the munificence of Tony Bloom. They should receive no credit for dropping the Albion in the sh*t in the first place. Archer was not motivated by a desire to see the Albion thrive and Belotti and Stanley facilitated his asset stripping to the major detriment of club, and that is as politely as I can put it.
 




Bozza

You can change this
Helpful Moderator
Jul 4, 2003
55,575
Back in Sussex
However, this does not turn this trio into unlikely heroes. Our current position is down to first of all the fighting spirit of the fans, the rescue job performed by Dick Knight, and the munificence of Tony Bloom. They should receive no credit for dropping the Albion in the sh*t in the first place. Archer was not motivated by a desire to see the Albion thrive and Belotti and Stanley facilitated his asset stripping to the major detriment of club, and that is as politely as I can put it.

I don't think anyone is trying to suggest that the Albion's rise was the end result of their cunning plan and they were simply a bit misunderstood or anything like that. I'm certainly not. I think we're all in agreement on what they planned for the club and it wasn't pleasant.
 


Papa Lazarou

Living in a De Zerbi wonderland
Jul 7, 2003
18,840
Worthing
I don't think anyone is trying to suggest that the Albion's rise was the end result of their cunning plan and they were simply a bit misunderstood or anything like that. I'm certainly not. I think we're all in agreement on what they planned for the club and it wasn't pleasant.

Well, I'd still suggest that there's a 10% chance that Bellotti was honestly doing what he thought was best for the club and maybe 5% chance that Archer was doing the same, just hopelessly out of his depth.

Greg Stanley was too drunk to know either way.

This is only my own opinion.
 


mona

The Glory Game
Jul 9, 2003
5,470
High up on the South Downs.
We've always been a division 3 or 4 club, and I just don't see how the club would have kicked on from say '91 to eclipse the position it's in now.

Between 1977 and 1992, the club spent only one season out of the top two divisions. Greg Stanley, Bellotti and Archer engineered the decline.......probably through a blend of incompetence and malevolence.
 




symyjym

Banned
Nov 2, 2009
13,138
Brighton / Hove actually
Well, I'd still suggest that there's a 10% chance that Bellotti was honestly doing what he thought was best for the club and maybe 5% chance that Archer was doing the same, just hopelessly out of his depth.

Greg Stanley was too drunk to know either way.

This is only my own opinion.

They did try to move the club to Waterhall before it went all pear shaped.
 




symyjym

Banned
Nov 2, 2009
13,138
Brighton / Hove actually
And / or Toads Hole Valley - I remember Bellotti's presentation written in crayon.

Playing Devil’s Advocate but the club/Goldstone and needing to move were undoubtedly tough times.

I seem to remember that the selling of the Goldstone was to force the hand of the council to make the attaining of land (Waterhall) an urgent matter, and hasten a decision. The gamble didn't pay off but the Goldstone had to be sold anyway. Damned either way.

Maybe if he wasn’t physically attacked, he may not have thought sod it and run off with the money?
 


Mackenzie

Old Brightonian
Nov 7, 2003
33,508
East Wales
Too many variables for anyone to be certain, but my vision of events would have seen us at the Amex now without the need to play at Gillingham or Withdean. Perhaps our fan base would be even larger and TB would have financed a chunk of the Amex with the proceeds of the sale of the Goldstone. We might have had to endure an administration along the way too.
 




Guy Fawkes

The voice of treason
Sep 29, 2007
8,187
sold for 7.4M to Chartwell, and sold on for £23.86M to Abbey Group.

Am i right in thinking that it was £7.4m for the site with the Goldstone Ground still intact on it and £23.86m with the ground demolished and the retail units built in it's place? or were the retail units added after the £23.86m sale (I think it's the former but my memory is hazy at best on this)

If they had demolished and rebuilt there, how much did that cost and therefore they didn't turn that £7.4m straight into £23.86m at the expense of the club, there would have been significant costs incurred in redeveloping the site. If the latter, we were ripped off in the extreme.

Can anyone clarify?
 


fat old seagull

New member
Sep 8, 2005
5,239
Rural Ringmer
I think we would still be at the Goldstone, primarily for its historical value as the only soccer ground which had once been used for public executions.... well three anyway! :)
 



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