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Is it time for boots on the ground to defeat ISIL?

Is it time for British boots on the ground to defeat ISIL?

  • Yes

    Votes: 14 31.1%
  • No

    Votes: 27 60.0%
  • Fence

    Votes: 4 8.9%

  • Total voters
    45


Kuipers Supporters Club

Well-known member
Feb 10, 2009
5,629
GOSBTS
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-32831854

Footage showing the 'brutal' regime faced by Iraqis in Mosul, a year after its fall to the so called Islamic State.

Drone strikes supported by actors on the ground, which have included the Iraqi army and other supporting groups have done little to stop the advance of this 'death cult'.

We made a huge mistake in 2003 by invading Iraq, of that there is no doubt, alongside the Americans we created this mess, but is it up to us to solve it?

It seems increasingly that boots on the ground may be the only way to defeat ISIL - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33041218

What is the alternative to ISIL? Saddam might have been bad, but surely he and Assad are better than this. Isn't it now, 'better the devil you know'?
 


Dec 15, 2014
1,979
Here
NO NO NO!!!!!

Absolutely NOT!!!!

A serious look at boots on the ground and all the repercussions and the benefits of winning this type of war should happen. I know I sound like Chamberlain and I'm not saying give them the territory and control but boots on the ground is too high a price to pay.
 










JJ McClure

Go Jags
Jul 7, 2003
10,812
Hassocks
No way.
If you think the regime faced by Iraqis is brutal wait until they get hold of western troops and video the results.
 


Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
29,719
Hove
Makes you think of Colonel Kurtz monologue on war and 'the horror'.

"I've seen horrors... horrors that you've seen. But you have no right to call me a murderer. You have a right to kill me. You have a right to do that... but you have no right to judge me. It's impossible for words to describe what is necessary to those who do not know what horror means. Horror. Horror has a face... and you must make a friend of horror. Horror and moral terror are your friends. If they are not then they are enemies to be feared. They are truly enemies.

I remember when I was with Special Forces. Seems a thousand centuries ago. We went into a camp to inoculate the children. We left the camp after we had inoculated the children for Polio, and this old man came running after us and he was crying. He couldn't see. We went back there and they had come and hacked off every inoculated arm. There they were in a pile. A pile of little arms. And I remember... I... I... I cried. I wept like some grandmother. I wanted to tear my teeth out. I didn't know what I wanted to do. And I want to remember it. I never want to forget it. I never want to forget. And then I realized... like I was shot... like I was shot with a diamond... a diamond bullet right through my forehead. And I thought: My God... the genius of that. The genius. The will to do that. Perfect, genuine, complete, crystalline, pure. And then I realized they were stronger than we. Because they could stand that these were not monsters. These were men... trained cadres. These men who fought with their hearts, who had families, who had children, who were filled with love... but they had the strength... the strength... to do that. If I had ten divisions of those men our troubles here would be over very quickly. You have to have men who are moral... and at the same time who are able to utilize their primordial instincts to kill without feeling... without passion... without judgment... without judgment. Because it's judgment that defeats us."
 


Cowfold Seagull

Fan of the 17 bus
Apr 22, 2009
21,578
Cowfold
NO NO NO!!!!!

Absolutely NOT!!!!

A serious look at boots on the ground and all the repercussions and the benefits of winning this type of war should happen. I know I sound like Chamberlain and I'm not saying give them the territory and control but boots on the ground is too high a price to pay.

Absolutely this. Plus if the Americans, (no one else has the muscle to do it), were to invade, all it would ultimately to is enrage tens of thousands more militant young muslims.
 




GreersElbow

New member
Jan 5, 2012
4,870
A Northern Outpost
A major aspect of their ideology is intifada. They have been goading us into a fight because they know there'll be further repercussions in Western worlds by young muslims who are already on the verge of being radicalised. They have been calling for Western muslims to conduct low-level attacks on Western soil for a while now. Returning troops to the middle east will only mean more propaganda that this is a "crusade" against them; alas inspiring people to rise up. It's a part of the doctrine all fundamentalists believe in, a holy war. This is seen to be theirs.

More so, one only has to look at neighbouring states. I wouldn't say there's a conspiracy, however, why is Saudi Arabia only paying attention to Yemen? Why have they intervened there where Al-Qaeda have a stronghold and not in Iraq where ISIS has a stronghold?

Yes, there has been recently a few very low-level terrorist attacks in SA, all lone wolf. But one must begin to question how much of an involvement has SA really got in the rise of ISIS.
 


symyjym

Banned
Nov 2, 2009
13,138
Brighton / Hove actually
Brighton4Cambridge3;6954 582 said:
We made a huge mistake in 2003 by invading Iraq, of that there is no doubt, alongside the Americans we created this mess, but is it up to us to solve it?

Whilst we/ the West have been tarnished with the illegal war in Iraq, I prefer to call it the Blair & Bush war. They can take ownership of the mess they created not us.

The first thing we should be doing is charging Bush & Blair and those associated with it like Rumsfeld and Cheney, with war crimes. We expect the leaders and governments in the Middle East to be held accountable and likewise so should we ours. At the moment ISIL thrive on the double standards we set in dealing with it.

Once we set an example that all leaders including our own are held accountable for war crimes, we could then think about sending a multinational UN force out there for a final push.

James Steel is an interesting character. Below is a trailer for the documentary (Searching for Steel)



Full documentary here

https://youtu.be/_ca1HsC6MH0
 


Stumpy Tim

Well-known member
The whole thing is a mess, My immediate reaction is that boots on the ground are needed - but they shouldn't be US or UK boots. Iran need to be involved, we should probably switch sides in Syria, Saudi Arabia need involvement, Iraq need to do a better job. Unfortunately the politics are horribly in the way and it's highly unlikely to happen.
 






grummitts gloves

New member
Dec 30, 2008
2,796
West Sussex, la,la,la
Clear as mud

What a mess!
 

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Uncle Spielberg

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Jul 6, 2003
42,781
Lancing
The USA will do the square root of f ck all bar a few token air strikes until ISIS, as likely, will be on the Israel border ready to invade and impose their abhorrent ideology on them, then and only then will the USA fight. If the USA wanted to crush ISIS they could do over one weekend but they don't
 




alfredmizen

Banned
Mar 11, 2015
6,342
The whole thing is a mess, My immediate reaction is that boots on the ground are needed - but they shouldn't be US or UK boots. Iran need to be involved, we should probably switch sides in Syria, Saudi Arabia need involvement, Iraq need to do a better job. Unfortunately the politics are horribly in the way and it's highly unlikely to happen.
Seriously mate, shi'ite iranians fighting against sunni arabs would HIGHLY complicate matters to say the least :D
 


Stumpy Tim

Well-known member
Seriously mate, shi'ite iranians fighting against sunni arabs would HIGHLY complicate matters to say the least :D

Even more complicated! I think the reality is that the Iranians are already fighting in there & on top of that the Iraqi's are mobilising their Shi'ite tribes against ISIS. In reality, it's a form of tribal warfare already - much like Libya
 




Kuipers Supporters Club

Well-known member
Feb 10, 2009
5,629
GOSBTS
Even more complicated! I think the reality is that the Iranians are already fighting in there & on top of that the Iraqi's are mobilising their Shi'ite tribes against ISIS. In reality, it's a form of tribal warfare already - much like Libya

The Iranian army are fighting in Syria and Iraq, as well as funding and training Hezbollah - who we (UK state) consider a terrorist organisation.

Iran and Hezbollah are fighting on behalf of Assad (our supposed enemy) whilst fighting against the moderate rebels (our 'allies), who we are funding.

The Moderate rebels are fighting Assad and ISIL, but our air strikes are helping both Assad as well who is an ally of Iran (our enemy) and Hezbollah - a 'terrorist orgainsation'.

Hezbollah is an enemy of Egypt who recently bombed ISIL in Libya - as the State has no Government and is divided into two. Egypt is now our ally despite sentencing to death the democratically elected leader.


eeees complicated?
 


Wrong-Direction

Well-known member
Mar 10, 2013
13,395
Yes smash them before they get too big!
 



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