Coaching - do we do any?

Not Andy Naylor · May 30, 2015

The other day I was chatting to a few friends, all of whom support other clubs, and they were talking about the players they have seen improve in recent seasons. I have to admit I struggled to think of any Albion players who have got better over the same period. Rather the reverse, in fact. Young players, especially - Chicksen, Fenelon, JFC obviously, Monakana, March. Ince looked great in his debut season, but didn't seem to kick on quite as we'd hoped last time. Dunk is perhaps the only young player who made progress at first-team level, but perhaps that's because he played more and had more chances to look good in a struggling team as he was part of a defence that was often under pressure. March obviously gets a bye for being injured.

I suppose what I'm wondering is whether the coaches at the Elite Football Performance Centre are doing enough to improve our players, or whether the raw material isn't good enough. I was especially curious just before Christmas when JFC kept on hitting free kicks and corners at the first defender match after match while even I could see that his standing foot was in the wrong place but none of the coaches seemed to be doing anything about it.

I haven't seen much of the under-21s, so perhaps things are more hopeful there. I like the little I've seen of Charlie Harris, but is his development in good hands? Is he, in fact, developing? Not much point of having a Development Squad if not. Please tell me things are brilliant below first-team level.

Brighton Mod · May 30, 2015

Solly has had his talent coached out of him, he scored a great goal against Norwich in the pre season two years ago and looked like the only player who could score that night, but that was a s good as it got for him. I'm not sure what happens to these young players, but you're right, they don't appear to improve at our club.

Postman Pat · May 30, 2015

I think you are conveniently forgetting the likes of Bridcutt, Buckley, Barnes, Noone, Grant Hall. All players bought for not a lot and sold for a few quid. Without considering Walton.

The JFC argument has been done to death, but he is an U21 regular and we haven't had any of those before.

Consider the large number of youth players we have away now with international teams, we are getting it right.

Not Andy Naylor · May 30, 2015

Postman Pat said:
I think you are conveniently forgetting the likes of Bridcutt, Buckley, Barnes, Noone, Grant Hall. All players bought for not a lot and sold for a few quid. Without considering Walton.

The JFC argument has been done to death, but he is an U21 regular and we haven't had any of those before.

Consider the large number of youth players we have away now with international teams, we are getting it right.

I hope you're right about our young internationals. I'm not forgetting those players you mention, but I didn't want to re-ignite the Poyet good/everyone-since-then bad debate.

But since you've brought it up, they were mostly players we bought and put in the shop window of a good team. Bridcutt improved under Poyet, Buckley was about the same when we sold him on (only more injury-prone), Barnes more versatile because Gus had played him in different positions. Noone still crossed the ball mostly into the fifth row behind the goal. CMS also had his role changed, but that proved to be a disaster for the player.

BigGully · May 30, 2015

Not Andy Naylor said:
The other day I was chatting to a few friends, all of whom support other clubs, and they were talking about the players they have seen improve in recent seasons. I have to admit I struggled to think of any Albion players who have got better over the same period. Rather the reverse, in fact. Young players, especially - Chicksen, Fenelon, JFC obviously, Monakana, March. Ince looked great in his debut season, but didn't seem to kick on quite as we'd hoped last time. Dunk is perhaps the only young player who made progress at first-team level, but perhaps that's because he played more and had more chances to look good in a struggling team as he was part of a defence that was often under pressure. March obviously gets a bye for being injured.

I suppose what I'm wondering is whether the coaches at the Elite Football Performance Centre are doing enough to improve our players, or whether the raw material isn't good enough. I was especially curious just before Christmas when JFC kept on hitting free kicks and corners at the first defender match after match while even I could see that his standing foot was in the wrong place but none of the coaches seemed to be doing anything about it.

I haven't seen much of the under-21s, so perhaps things are more hopeful there. I like the little I've seen of Charlie Harris, but is his development in good hands? Is he, in fact, developing? Not much point of having a Development Squad if not. Please tell me things are brilliant below first-team level.

Its an interesting point.

I have been told by someone who would know, that at Academy level there is a recruitment drive rather than a development drive, by that I mean we have a training ground and a status that allows us to perhaps have first dibs on the fall out from Premier league sides before working with the personnel they already have, its a shame as a freed Premier League youngster are unlikely to be any better than the better local youngster that might then be released.

On this board we tend to get excited at anyone recruited north of Redhill and if he is then wearing a Premier League shirt even better, I think our dedicated recruitment department feel it shows what good work they are doing too, but I am not so sure.

Ernest · May 30, 2015

How many decent coaches who really can improve average players are there ? Obviously Poyet for what he did with players like El Abd for us, Warburton at Brentford seems to have improved a lot of average players but mostly coaching seems to consist of buying players and keep buying them rather than improve what you have and what you have coming through the youth ranks

Lush · May 30, 2015

Perhaps we should get Dean Wilkins back

Bwian · May 30, 2015

I've been asking that same question for ages....certainly didn't look as though anything was being done at the training ground last season. That includes since Hughton took over.

crookie · May 30, 2015

Free kicks and corners have generally been awful for the past couple of years, surely something that could be worked on in training, yet we seem consistently bad at these

GT49er · May 31, 2015

You do wonder, don't you - even if they're being grossly underpaid on a mere two or three grand a week (and heaven knows how the poor lambs can live on such a pittance) you'd think they would be able to get a free kick or a corner past the first defender, wouldn't you?
Fair enough, I couldn't - but I was a rubbish footballer - never even made the school first eleven - but then I was trying to kick a far heavier ball than they use nowadays; I think with a modern football, even I might be able to beat the first defender occasionally!

Hampster Gull · May 31, 2015

No, no we dont. Never

neilbard · Jun 1, 2015

=

yxee · Jun 1, 2015

I completely agree. It seems like quite a lot of our players get worse over time. Very few are improving markedly.

Surf's Up · Jun 1, 2015

Compare and Contrast: the development of players at B&HA vs the development of players at AFCB. Does this answer your question?

KZNSeagull · Jun 1, 2015

It is a good point. However, Individuals will always look worse in a team playing badly with little confidence. Squad rotation certainly does not help.

I am hoping that a successful pre-season will see a marked improvement in the team performance as to me, that is the most important thing. Individuals will look better as a result. AFCB's success came from the team as a whole obviously - the individuals in it are not world beaters by any means, but all know their roles and know each others game. That is what I believe we have to work on - pick the right players to do a job in a position, spend wisely to bring in players to enhance that and then most importantly, pick the same team as far as possible.

2 cases in point - Gardner and McCourt. Gardner was toilet for us, good for Forest. He cannot possibly have improved that much as an individual, it has to be down to how he was played and who he was playing with. Paddy, a fabulous talent accused of spraying the ball around to no-one. I would suggest that this was more down to the fact that he hardly played and his teammates did not know what he was going to do - had he played regularly, perhaps the team would know how to anticipate his passes and he would have looked better as a result?

yxee · Jun 1, 2015

KZNSeagull said:
It is a good point. However, Individuals will always look worse in a team playing badly with little confidence. Squad rotation certainly does not help.

I am hoping that a successful pre-season will see a marked improvement in the team performance as to me, that is the most important thing. Individuals will look better as a result. AFCB's success came from the team as a whole obviously - the individuals in it are not world beaters by any means, but all know their roles and know each others game. That is what I believe we have to work on - pick the right players to do a job in a position, spend wisely to bring in players to enhance that and then most importantly, pick the same team as far as possible.

2 cases in point - Gardner and McCourt. Gardner was toilet for us, good for Forest. He cannot possibly have improved that much as an individual, it has to be down to how he was played and who he was playing with. Paddy, a fabulous talent accused of spraying the ball around to no-one. I would suggest that this was more down to the fact that he hardly played and his teammates did not know what he was going to do - had he played regularly, perhaps the team would know how to anticipate his passes and he would have looked better as a result?

To add to that, lack of a long-term manager doesn't help, e.g. Rohan Ince under Hyypia.

BigGully · Jun 1, 2015

yxee said:
To add to that, lack of a long-term manager doesn't help, e.g. Rohan Ince under Hyypia.

Thats key for me, I guess it isnt a good idea having a bad manager in long term, so the selection of the manager is the important thing.

It doesnt seem to happen often. if you dont hit the ground running you lose support in the stands and quickly followed by the Board, that is the one thing that the club could control, the appointments and their tenure.

KZNSeagull · Jun 1, 2015

yxee said:
To add to that, lack of a long-term manager doesn't help, e.g. Rohan Ince under Hyypia.

Yes, good point. We also seem to have gone away from our passing game ethos as well.

Stainsey · Jun 1, 2015

I also wondered exactly what was the routine at the training centre. Particularly towards the end of last season, fitness training should surely have just been basic warm up, as if you are not fit by then (unless coming back from injury) you shouldn't be a professional footballer ? But looking at the performance in actual matches, shooting at goal, corners, free kicks, coaching, movement off the ball, passing to a player who was already moving as opposed to being static etc were never part of the training sessions ?

Gilliver's Travels · Jun 1, 2015

neilbard said:
View attachment 65750

You do indeed get the feeling that we've just bought a top-of-the-range Mercedes.
But no one at the club has a clue how to drive it.

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