surrey jim
Not in Surrey
The Heysel Stadium disaster was 30 years ago today and have not seen one thing in the news / online about it. Has it been forgotten?
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Heysel Stadium disaster
- Thread starter surrey jim
- Start date
1234andcounting
Well-known member
- Mar 31, 2008
- 1,609
Article by Ed Vulliamy in y'day's Guardian.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/may/27/heysel-stadium-disaster-30th-anniversary
Raised a question that has always bugged me about the differing reactions of Liverpool fans to Heysel and Hillsborough. I think that the article might give a context as to why it gets little or no media attention in this country.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/may/27/heysel-stadium-disaster-30th-anniversary
Raised a question that has always bugged me about the differing reactions of Liverpool fans to Heysel and Hillsborough. I think that the article might give a context as to why it gets little or no media attention in this country.
Pogue Mahone
Well-known member
- Apr 30, 2011
- 10,733
I saw the Juventus fans spectacular tribute, and assumed there'd be the usual anniversary coverage.
But you're right, it's been 'forgotten' (swept under the carpet).
Did Liverpool fans do anything to mark the occasion or were they too busy saying goodbye to 'Stevie G'?
But you're right, it's been 'forgotten' (swept under the carpet).
Did Liverpool fans do anything to mark the occasion or were they too busy saying goodbye to 'Stevie G'?
Postman Pat
Well-known member
Yes they are:
A private ceremony is being held at Anfield later to mark 30 years since the Heysel disaster.
Thirty-nine fans died when an internal wall collapsed at the Heysel Stadium in Brussels, during the 1985 European Cup final between Liverpool and Juventus.
The disaster unfolded after a surge by Liverpool fans, which drove the Italians towards the wall.
A wreath will be laid at Anfield by Phil Neal, who was Liverpool's captain at the time.
It will be placed at the Heysel Memorial in the club's centenary stand.
The stand will then be open for the rest of the day to allow people to pay their respects.
After a five-month trial, 14 Liverpool fans were found guilty of manslaughter and each jailed for three years as a result of the disaster.
However, an investigation in Belgium recommended that some of the blame should be laid on the police and the football authorities.
What happened at Heysel also led to English clubs being barred from European competition for five years, with Liverpool serving a six-year ban.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-32917970
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/liverpool-fc-players-never-talk-9350302
Pogue Mahone
Well-known member
- Apr 30, 2011
- 10,733
Just read the article - very well written, very interesting, and absolutely shocking.
He remembers the 'whooping' of the Liverpool fans. And the reactions he quotes...
39 people killed, and nobody wants to know.
He remembers the 'whooping' of the Liverpool fans. And the reactions he quotes...
39 people killed, and nobody wants to know.
KZNSeagull
Well-known member
The away fans at the Bradford fire were doing similar, I'm afraid. Some who attended matches in the 80's were absolutely vile.
Heysel was just terrible. It is good to know that Liverpool have marked previous anniversaries, but they have been quiet affairs. So it has not necessarily been swept under the carpet, but I suspect that you would only know about any remembrance events if you follow Liverpool closely.
attila
1997 Club
And then off to Brussels with Mike, Tim, Bomber and Jim to indulge our passion for Belgian beer and football and, indulging my silly Albania obsession, to cheer their no-hope national team on in a World Cup qualifying match.
Belgium v Albania, Heysel Stadium, 17 October 1984. The night when a couple of days abroad with good Brighton mates for some fine beer, a laugh and a silly, one sided football match where we’d be shouting ridiculous made-up slogans for the underdogs turned into a premonition of hell…..
We got well hammered in some of my old haunts in the city centre, then got the tram to the Heysel Stadium and rolled into the away end. Needing a bit of support to make staying upright easier after all that Delirium Tremens, I flopped onto one of the crash barriers. It promptly gave way and pitched me headlong down the terrace.
I wasn’t hurt, but we were all shocked. We looked around: the stadium was in a dreadful state. Crumbling terracing, weeds growing in the cracks, a couple more of the crash barriers near us obviously unfit for purpose, gaps in the stands where seats should be. ‘If a big game’s played here, this place could be a bloody death trap!’ we said to each other, utterly shocked.
Eight months later, on May 29, 1985, a wall would collapse at the European Cup Final between Liverpool and Juventus, killing 39 Juve fans and injuring 600. The disaster was triggered by crowd disorder sparked by bad ticketing arrangements - but it seems obvious to me that that, if the stadium had been properly maintained, far fewer people, if any, would have been killed or injured. The disaster led to an indefinite ban on English clubs from all European club competitions.
Of course, on the evening that we were there, there was no hint of such carnage. Given the utterly closed nature of Albanian society back then, the only ‘away fans’ apart from us were, as far as we could tell, a few Belgians of Albanian descent. The reason we could tell that was that they kept up a humourous piss take of the well-known Belgian French/Flemish linguistic divide throughout the game, shouting ‘Belgique! Belgie!’ in
a vaguely disparaging fashion. The result? Belgium won 3-1. Improbably, Albania did equalise, though, leading to (careful) leaping about among our little group…
I am a firm supported of safe standing at football, always have been, and am very angry that the Thatcher-led agenda following Heysel and the subsequent awful Hillsborough disaster led to the imposition of all-seater stadia and all kinds of other ludicrous restrictions on fan culture in the UK.
These disasters were triggered by bad stadium maintenance and equally poor crowd control – enhanced in the case of Hillsborough, of course, by cover-ups, police lies and calumnies against Liverpool fans in the Sun ‘newspaper’ after the event, seized upon by the biased and anti-football Taylor Report. Thatcher loathed football fans, as she did any aspect of working class culture, and took any opportunity she could to paint us as a bunch of semi-literate, violent morons. Of course, there are a few of those amongst our ranks, but you can find similar in any town centre on a Saturday night.
Now that the truth about Hillsborough has been revealed, the Taylor Report spawned by it should be torn up and safe standing should return to the UK, thus ending the silly situation where thousands of fans stand in all seater-stadia every week – I know I do – and the authorities turn a blind eye to it. Overpriced, sanitised and torn to bits by greedy moneymen and ludicrously overpaid players, English football needs a massive overhaul. I know some people won’t agree with that, but that’s what I think. And that isn’t in any way to play down the awful tragedies which took place: I’ll never forget what I saw at the Heysel Stadium that night.
Belgium v Albania, Heysel Stadium, 17 October 1984. The night when a couple of days abroad with good Brighton mates for some fine beer, a laugh and a silly, one sided football match where we’d be shouting ridiculous made-up slogans for the underdogs turned into a premonition of hell…..
We got well hammered in some of my old haunts in the city centre, then got the tram to the Heysel Stadium and rolled into the away end. Needing a bit of support to make staying upright easier after all that Delirium Tremens, I flopped onto one of the crash barriers. It promptly gave way and pitched me headlong down the terrace.
I wasn’t hurt, but we were all shocked. We looked around: the stadium was in a dreadful state. Crumbling terracing, weeds growing in the cracks, a couple more of the crash barriers near us obviously unfit for purpose, gaps in the stands where seats should be. ‘If a big game’s played here, this place could be a bloody death trap!’ we said to each other, utterly shocked.
Eight months later, on May 29, 1985, a wall would collapse at the European Cup Final between Liverpool and Juventus, killing 39 Juve fans and injuring 600. The disaster was triggered by crowd disorder sparked by bad ticketing arrangements - but it seems obvious to me that that, if the stadium had been properly maintained, far fewer people, if any, would have been killed or injured. The disaster led to an indefinite ban on English clubs from all European club competitions.
Of course, on the evening that we were there, there was no hint of such carnage. Given the utterly closed nature of Albanian society back then, the only ‘away fans’ apart from us were, as far as we could tell, a few Belgians of Albanian descent. The reason we could tell that was that they kept up a humourous piss take of the well-known Belgian French/Flemish linguistic divide throughout the game, shouting ‘Belgique! Belgie!’ in
a vaguely disparaging fashion. The result? Belgium won 3-1. Improbably, Albania did equalise, though, leading to (careful) leaping about among our little group…
I am a firm supported of safe standing at football, always have been, and am very angry that the Thatcher-led agenda following Heysel and the subsequent awful Hillsborough disaster led to the imposition of all-seater stadia and all kinds of other ludicrous restrictions on fan culture in the UK.
These disasters were triggered by bad stadium maintenance and equally poor crowd control – enhanced in the case of Hillsborough, of course, by cover-ups, police lies and calumnies against Liverpool fans in the Sun ‘newspaper’ after the event, seized upon by the biased and anti-football Taylor Report. Thatcher loathed football fans, as she did any aspect of working class culture, and took any opportunity she could to paint us as a bunch of semi-literate, violent morons. Of course, there are a few of those amongst our ranks, but you can find similar in any town centre on a Saturday night.
Now that the truth about Hillsborough has been revealed, the Taylor Report spawned by it should be torn up and safe standing should return to the UK, thus ending the silly situation where thousands of fans stand in all seater-stadia every week – I know I do – and the authorities turn a blind eye to it. Overpriced, sanitised and torn to bits by greedy moneymen and ludicrously overpaid players, English football needs a massive overhaul. I know some people won’t agree with that, but that’s what I think. And that isn’t in any way to play down the awful tragedies which took place: I’ll never forget what I saw at the Heysel Stadium that night.
chimneys
Well-known member
- Jun 11, 2007
- 3,589
"Liverpool chairman John Smith dismissed the killers as belonging to the National Front in London; “It was the NF, proof page 3”, reported the Daily Star. The Telegraph carried a front page story about “English and Italian fans” being killed in “a riot”. The Express turned quickly to an “anti-British frenzy in Europe” and the Mirror stated: “Britons Warned: Keep out of Europe”.
When Liverpool manager Joe Fagan offered up a prayer in the city’s Anglican cathedral, it was for “all” victims of soccer “tragedies” – natural disasters like earthquakes – “especially Brussels and Bradford”. For an initial church service in Turin, neither Liverpool nor the British embassy managed a wreath. Fans blamed the police, or the ground, or said the slaughter was in retaliation for attacks by supporters of Roma after Liverpool had won the previous year’s cup in Rome. No reckoning; Heysel remained an open wound."
Taken from the Guardian piece.
I wonder how much Phil Neal demanded to take part? From The Guardian, 2005
Phil Neal
Then: Liverpool captain, 34
Now: Merseyside Radio commentator
I'd rather forget that night. It was an ordeal. But, Jamie, why should I help you out? I'm helping you pay your mortgage [by talking to you about Heysel]. When people ask me for my view, they usually have to pay for it. You're asking for my help for nothing. To pay your mortgage, Jamie. I mean, what do you want from me?
I just thought that as the captain of Liverpool football club on that night at Heysel it would be good to hear your view?
Yes but what do you want from me? If I talk to you for a few minutes, then I'm helping you pay your mortgage and what am I getting in return? Do you know what I mean?
Well, I have been to Italy and talked with some of the families of the victims and they say that the trophy should be given back by Juventus to commemorate what happened.
About Juventus? Why are you asking me? Why are you asking someone on the Liverpool side? Juventus made amends very soon. Ask them ... Jamie I'm helping you pay your mortgage. People who want my views pay.
I'm sorry, but everyone else I have spoken to has ...
Great. So you've spoken to people, you've got your views. You've got your Liverpool view, but if you want mine for free, well people pay for them.
- Jul 7, 2003
- 47,221
I stumbled across a French (French language anyway- might have been a Belgian channel) TV report of Heysel last night. Never really seen any footage before. It was completely horrific, and very graphic (lots of footage of the dead and dying). Bodies everywhere.
The cause of death in most cases was crushing/suffocation, as they tried to get away from the charging and missiles being lobbed from the Liverpool section. The wall collapsing merely acted as a valve- the people injured & dying were already in trouble before the bricks gave way.
The cause of death in most cases was crushing/suffocation, as they tried to get away from the charging and missiles being lobbed from the Liverpool section. The wall collapsing merely acted as a valve- the people injured & dying were already in trouble before the bricks gave way.
Pogue Mahone
Well-known member
- Apr 30, 2011
- 10,733
Easy 10
Brain dead MUG SHEEP
Gregory2Smith1
J'les aurai!
I was in Italy on holiday that night
we were advised to stay in the hotel,which we did for the first night
but ventured out for the last 2 nights,a bit apprehensive,but we didn't get any bother
watched the actual match in a bar,just remember all the Italians coming out onto the streets to celebrate Juve winning,which was surprising at the time because we were nowhere near Turin
we were advised to stay in the hotel,which we did for the first night
but ventured out for the last 2 nights,a bit apprehensive,but we didn't get any bother
watched the actual match in a bar,just remember all the Italians coming out onto the streets to celebrate Juve winning,which was surprising at the time because we were nowhere near Turin
Skaville
Well-known member
Not just Liverpool fans... ENGLISH fans. I travelled to Belgium via ferry on the day of the disaster. We were heading on a school football trip. Many of us 13 year olds were Liverpool fans (weren't we all in the eightes). Yes, I'm a JCL, converting in 1986! Anyway, we travelled in Liverpool clobber. We drew quite a lot of attention on the ferry - there were lots of young blokes on the piss eager to trade beer with us for Lievrpool scarves and hats. Why? They were Millwall, Chelsea and Spurs fans who were just heading over for the trouble. They told us to watch out for our hats on the telly - they'd be fighting on the pitch. Found this online last night...
"The very day after the disaster, UEFA’s chief observer, Gunter Schneider, stated, “Only the English fans were responsible. Of that there is no doubt.” He said ‘English’ fans, not solely Liverpool fans, because several Juventus supporters who were at the game had claimed that there were supporters from many British clubs, including Chelsea. Not quite as unfeasible as it may sound; Chelsea stood to gain from a Liverpool victory –– or a Liverpool ban –– as they themselves would then qualify for European football the following season. Besides, a European Cup Final in Brussels would make an attractive, possibilities-packed Bank Holiday week alternative for a Londoner, just a short and easy hop across the water and barely further than Brighton, Southend or Margate.
The lack of ticket control at the ground certainly made it impossible for the authorities to know who was in the ground and where; here’s an account from a football website –– though not a Liverpool one:
“It was impossible for police to weed out known troublemakers, and easy for pockets of hard core hooligans to assemble wherever they wished. As a result, two hours before kick off, perhaps the most malevolent assembly of football supporters ever seen in one place had gathered, and as far as they were concerned, it was payback time (for Rome 1984). It should be understood that not just Liverpool hooligans were present. There were contingents from a great many firms all over the country, from Luton MIGS to Millwall Bushwackers, West Ham ICF and Newcastle Toon Army. After the events in Rome, club rivalries had been put aside: Juventus were to catch the full fury of the English hooligan elite. There was a score to settle.”
"The very day after the disaster, UEFA’s chief observer, Gunter Schneider, stated, “Only the English fans were responsible. Of that there is no doubt.” He said ‘English’ fans, not solely Liverpool fans, because several Juventus supporters who were at the game had claimed that there were supporters from many British clubs, including Chelsea. Not quite as unfeasible as it may sound; Chelsea stood to gain from a Liverpool victory –– or a Liverpool ban –– as they themselves would then qualify for European football the following season. Besides, a European Cup Final in Brussels would make an attractive, possibilities-packed Bank Holiday week alternative for a Londoner, just a short and easy hop across the water and barely further than Brighton, Southend or Margate.
The lack of ticket control at the ground certainly made it impossible for the authorities to know who was in the ground and where; here’s an account from a football website –– though not a Liverpool one:
“It was impossible for police to weed out known troublemakers, and easy for pockets of hard core hooligans to assemble wherever they wished. As a result, two hours before kick off, perhaps the most malevolent assembly of football supporters ever seen in one place had gathered, and as far as they were concerned, it was payback time (for Rome 1984). It should be understood that not just Liverpool hooligans were present. There were contingents from a great many firms all over the country, from Luton MIGS to Millwall Bushwackers, West Ham ICF and Newcastle Toon Army. After the events in Rome, club rivalries had been put aside: Juventus were to catch the full fury of the English hooligan elite. There was a score to settle.”
atfc village
Well-known member
The inside of the match programme showed a ball kicked into a wall and it collapsing ,spooky.
Saladpack Seagull
Just Shut Up and Paddle
At least one of the Juventus "firms", The Droogi, I think, blame not just Liverpool fans but all English fans of all clubs. They were aware fans from other clubs were there that day and hold us all collectively responsible. Their "Odio Liverpool" banner cites only one club, but their loathing of English fans runs a lot deeper. On holiday in Greece my wife and I found ourselves next to a group of Juve fans on the beach, and while I felt a bit uncomfortable with my Albion towel on display, I suddenly realised that my brother-in-law was on his way to join us with his large Liver Bird tattoo on his arm! ( he is not a plastic Scouser but the real thing and attended four of their five European Cup wins). I did a quick sprint up the beach and got him to cover up, as the Juve lads looked a bit tasty and we're way too old for a "tear up"! A discreet retreat was best as Heysel is still too raw among Juve fans; we tend not to appreciate this here.
I was with my now wife on a trip round Italy. We were staying in Bari with a mate teaching English there and watched it with his Mum and Dad. They were all from Kirby. Everton fans. In the morning my partner and I were shouted at repeatedly in the streets. 'Assassini' or murderers. This had also been painted on a wall in red paint. We said we were Australian but they were not having it.
We got on an unplanned ferry within the hour to Athens.
Gregory2Smith1
J'les aurai!
the following day we had a day trip to Florence,bearing in mind this was a 18-30 do
a group of us sat outside a bar drinking,but the atmosphere was subdued,I was actually surprised we even got served
in this day & age of social media,we'd probably got jumped
Easy to copy and paste, but absolute boxxocks! Report after report from respected journos, and occasional sources close to Liverpool fans, speak of the blame being put fairly and squarely upon the Liverpool fans. Yes, the stadium was not fit for purpose by the standards employed then, let alone today, but we should not allow those responsible to absolve themselves of the responsibility of this tragedy.
If the supposed comments of Phil Neal are true, then it speaks volumes about the double standards employed by those on Merseyside when discussing football disasters. Those responsible should accept the blame, and then perhaps the real victims, and football, can move on.