Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊

Register Log in

Scotland / SNP / Labour



Bozza

Bozza

You can change this
Helpful Moderator
Jul 4, 2003
55,753
Back in Sussex
The SNP nearly cleaning up is clearly significant in what it says about the Union, and how we progress as one nation from here.

Setting that aside, however, did it actually make any difference at all in terms of the government and opposition? If Labour had won those 56 seats, the Tories would still have the same majority that they now find themselves with.

It would be more unified opposition block facing them, but it seems highly unlikely that Labour and SNP are ever going to differ with one of them backing the Tories and the other opposing.

So, solely in terms of the current government v opposition position, is there any difference between Labour or SNP controlling those 56 Scottish seats?
 




Eeyore

Eeyore

Colonel Hee-Haw of Queen's Park
NSC Patron
Apr 5, 2014
23,587
I don't think the Scottish will respond well to having no representation in government. It is a time of turbulence. Especially with EU referendum coming up.
 


Triggaaar

Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
50,202
Goldstone
Bozza said:
So, solely in terms of the current government v opposition position, is there any difference between Labour or SNP controlling those 56 Scottish seats?
Click to expand...
Labour and SNP will oppose the Tories equally, so the Tories will have to rely on their whips either way. The crucial point was that if we didn't expect the SNP to do well, Labour would have won a lot more seats in England, preventing a Tory majority, and giving Ed the chance to form a minority government. As it was, we didn't want the SNP having control of the UK, so we voted Tory. Now that it's done, the main differences are: Labour need to have more of a re-think than they would have done; the UK needs to come up with a plan for Scotland.
 


beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,312
Bozza said:
So, solely in terms of the current government v opposition position, is there any difference between Labour or SNP controlling those 56 Scottish seats?
Click to expand...

absolutly not. the narrative Labour will like to tell is that fear of the SNP increased the Conservative vote in England. maybe it did, but its a thin excuse and doesnt explain losing Scotland in the first place.
 


Bry Nylon

Bry Nylon

Test your smoke alarm
Helpful Moderator
Jul 21, 2003
19,857
Playing snooker
Bozza said:
The SNP nearly cleaning up is clearly significant in what it says about the Union, and how we progress as one nation from here.

Setting that aside, however, did it actually make any difference at all in terms of the government and opposition? If Labour had won those 56 seats, the Tories would still have the same majority that they now find themselves with.

It would be more unified opposition block facing them, but it seems highly unlikely that Labour and SNP are ever going to differ with one of them backing the Tories and the other opposing.

So, solely in terms of the current government v opposition position, is there any difference between Labour or SNP controlling those 56 Scottish seats?
Click to expand...

Do you write the script for NewsNight? This is exactly the topic they are debating now.
 




H

Hampster Gull

New member
Dec 22, 2010
13,462
Bozza said:
The SNP nearly cleaning up is clearly significant in what it says about the Union, and how we progress as one nation from here.

Setting that aside, however, did it actually make any difference at all in terms of the government and opposition? If Labour had won those 56 seats, the Tories would still have the same majority that they now find themselves with.

It would be more unified opposition block facing them, but it seems highly unlikely that Labour and SNP are ever going to differ with one of them backing the Tories and the other opposing.

So, solely in terms of the current government v opposition position, is there any difference between Labour or SNP controlling those 56 Scottish seats?
Click to expand...

Parking the independence issue, none
 


yxee

yxee

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2011
2,521
Manchester
The rhetoric will be louder, both for independence and anti-austerity. Thankfully they've had their couple of years in the spotlight anwe've got bigger things to be thinking about. Just another province that's all too happy to spend money that they don't earn.
 


GreersElbow

GreersElbow

New member
Jan 5, 2012
4,870
A Northern Outpost
Triggaaar said:
Labour and SNP will oppose the Tories equally, so the Tories will have to rely on their whips either way. The crucial point was that if we didn't expect the SNP to do well, Labour would have won a lot more seats in England, preventing a Tory majority, and giving Ed the chance to form a minority government. As it was, we didn't want the SNP having control of the UK, so we voted Tory. Now that it's done, the main differences are: Labour need to have more of a re-think than they would have done; the UK needs to come up with a plan for Scotland.
Click to expand...
Very much this, I'd imagine the SNP would push for devo-max. The potential problem, though could be small; is Wales and Northern Ireland. I'd like to see more devolved power as I'm staunchly against central power unless it's for defence and a 'federal' budget. Assuming that federalism is what the SNP will hope to gain.
 




Blackadder

Blackadder

Brighton Bhuna Boy
Jul 6, 2003
16,077
Haywards Heath
Bozza said:
The SNP nearly cleaning up is clearly significant in what it says about the Union, and how we progress as one nation from here.

Setting that aside, however, did it actually make any difference at all in terms of the government and opposition? If Labour had won those 56 seats, the Tories would still have the same majority that they now find themselves with.

It would be more unified opposition block facing them, but it seems highly unlikely that Labour and SNP are ever going to differ with one of them backing the Tories and the other opposing.

So, solely in terms of the current government v opposition position, is there any difference between Labour or SNP controlling those 56 Scottish seats?
Click to expand...

I wanted the UK to stick together last year. If the Scots want to go to let them. seriously if they all want to go let 'em.

Mind you,the Tories will always be in control south of the border, yeah right..
 
Last edited:


RexCathedra

RexCathedra

Aurea Mediocritas
Jan 14, 2005
3,499
Vacationland
The SNP nearly cleaning up is clearly significant in what it says about the Union, and how we progress as one nation from here.
Click to expand...
If the Tories look a a map, they will quickly realize they can stay in power forever by simply letting Scotland become independent.

Permanent power v. the Union? Tell me they won't pick the first over the second. I mean, they're Tories.
 


B

Brovion

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 6, 2003
19,378
It's an interesting conundrum. The opinion polls were woefully wrong about England and Wales - but they were bang-on with Scotland. Labour, sadly, finds it impossible to get elected in England with even a mildly left-of-centre manifesto - but apparently it isn't nearly left-wing enough for Scotland.

I'm really not sure where we go from here, but as Nicola Sturgeon said, it won't be "business as usual." The only crumb of comfort I can draw from this election is that there is finally, finally a stirring of English nationalism. It's only very little, just a faint twitch, but it's there.
 




H

Hampster Gull

New member
Dec 22, 2010
13,462
Brovion said:
It's an interesting conundrum. The opinion polls were woefully wrong about England and Wales - but they were bang-on with Scotland. Labour, sadly, finds it impossible to get elected in England with even a mildly left-of-centre manifesto - but apparently it isn't nearly left-wing enough for Scotland.

I'm really not sure where we go from here, but as Nicola Sturgeon said, it won't be "business as usual." The only crumb of comfort I can draw from this election is that there is finally, finally a stirring of English nationalism. It's only very little, just a faint twitch, but it's there.
Click to expand...

Couple of things from me. It wasnt a midly left wing agenda, it was laced with some pretty extreme ideological stuff. Also its very difficult to remove the incumbent when things are going well, which despie the protestations, is the case now. A move to the centre left and waiting until the right moment, probsbly when the tories mess up
 


jakarta

jakarta

Well-known member
May 25, 2007
15,632
Sullington
If I were Cameron I would give the SNP full fiscal powers to tax and spend as they want in Scotland.

That would soon end Austerity wouldn't it?
 


Giraffe

Giraffe

VERY part time moderator
Helpful Moderator
NSC Patron
Aug 8, 2005
26,552
RexCathedra said:
If the Tories look a a map, they will quickly realize they can stay in power forever by simply letting Scotland become independent.

Permanent power v. the Union? Tell me they won't pick the first over the second. I mean, they're Tories.
Click to expand...

David Cameron is a big Unionist who supported the no campaign last time.
 




Surf's Up

Surf's Up

Well-known member
Jul 17, 2011
10,169
Here
Wales could be interesting. If I were a Tory over the next 5 years I'd be looking to treat the Welsh similarly to the Scots by increasing their sense of nationalism, facilitating the development of Plaid Cymru, giving them greater devolved powers, wiping Labour off the Welsh map and effectively reducing them to a massively weakened English urban party.
 


Triggaaar

Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
50,202
Goldstone
RexCathedra said:
If the Tories look a a map, they will quickly realize they can stay in power forever by simply letting Scotland become independent.

Permanent power v. the Union? Tell me they won't pick the first over the second. I mean, they're Tories.
Click to expand...
They had the choice last year, and they fought to keep Scotland.

If Scotland did leave, the UK wouldn't be tory forever, as labour would have no choice but to move to the right again - revitalised new labour.

Keep the oil, ditch the sweaties.
 


atfc village

atfc village

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2013
5,018
Lower Bourne .Farnham
A protest vote from The Scots ,if they had a referendum tomorrow,next week or in 5 years time they'd still vote no .It's like a little brother having a paddy ,Me? they can do one as far as im concerned.
 


C

cirC

Active member
Jul 26, 2004
436
Tupnorth
I cannot understand just how the tories held onto their only seat.What did they do right that labour did wrong?
 




Captain Sensible

Captain Sensible

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2003
6,435
Not the real one
The Scottish independence economic model has collapsed with the price of oil. They have no way of operating independently so will be happy with the situation of 56 seats and more devoluted power. They will start to lose support as many voted SNP with the hope of a second referendum on independence which will never come. A decent labour leader will help labour claw back some seats up there. It will be slow, but will eventually end up with half of the seats for the SNP. Tories will go from strength to strength as the SNP rhetoric gets reported over and over. Labour have to get their leader right!
 


pb21

pb21

Well-known member
Apr 23, 2010
6,316
Bozza said:
The SNP nearly cleaning up is clearly significant in what it says about the Union, and how we progress as one nation from here.

Setting that aside, however, did it actually make any difference at all in terms of the government and opposition? If Labour had won those 56 seats, the Tories would still have the same majority that they now find themselves with.

It would be more unified opposition block facing them, but it seems highly unlikely that Labour and SNP are ever going to differ with one of them backing the Tories and the other opposing.

So, solely in terms of the current government v opposition position, is there any difference between Labour or SNP controlling those 56 Scottish seats?
Click to expand...

Possibly part of the reason the Tories got their vote out on a national basis was because of the fear of a lab snp coalition.

So the rise of the SNP probably enhanced the number of tory seats in England.
 


You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Albion and Premier League latest from Sky Sports


Top
Link Here