Too Socialist or too Centre Left?

Hampster Gull · May 8, 2015

Reflecting on the result, do you think that Labour were too centre left and should have been more to the left in their policies, or too much to the left and should have been more centre left?

Fungus · May 8, 2015

Depends on the definition of Socialist, ie. not the one that Labour are vaguely associated with, and certainly not Scargill, Lenin, etc!

Try this: http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/our-object-and-declaration-principles

[edit: Not that it would have won them the election, which I know is what you're getting at!]

catfish · May 8, 2015

That was not a socialist Labour party by any means.

Hampster Gull · May 8, 2015

Oxy McFloppie-Tish said:
Depends on the definition of Socialist, ie. not the one that Labour are vaguely associated with, and certainly not Scargill, Lenin, etc!

Try this: http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/our-object-and-declaration-principles

[edit: Not that it would have won them the election, which I know is what you're getting at!]

Yes, I wasnt after a definition of socialism! I ill edit the question

Hampster Gull · May 8, 2015

catfish said:
That was not a socialist Labour party by any means.

That doesn't answer the question!

Seasidesage · May 8, 2015

Judging by the SNP success, you would have to say not socialist enough. But I think it's a much about personalities as anything now...

Jim D · May 8, 2015

catfish said:
That was not a socialist Labour party by any means.

You're kidding, right? Mansion tax, scrap non-doms, reduce Uni fees, raise high rate of tax, scrap zero hours contracts were all straight out of Michael Foot's handbook.

BLOCK F · May 8, 2015

Far too left .

1.) Kick out many of the old guard (if any remain)
2.) Appoint a modern fresh leader, preferably with a bit of experience outside politics.
3.) Promote and encourage those MP's who have brains.
4.) Get rid of the politics of envy and adopt a more moderate and aspirational ethos throughout the whole party.
5.)Lose the air of smug self righteousness and admit it when mistakes have been made.

I speak as a Tory Voter who believes that the country deserves a strong opposition,whichever party is in power.

Kosmonaut · May 8, 2015

Labour has too much baggage from the Blair/Brown years, and the prospect of a Lab/SNP deal was damaging also, I don't think there is anything they could have done.

London Irish · May 8, 2015

Miliband got it just right, left enough to hold the party together sick of Blair's wet Toryism, but right enough for a reasonable middle ground of non-ideological voter. He was just unlucky the Scotland issue flared up and the Tories used it to whip up English nationalism and a scare campaign against the terrible thing of allowing Scots some influence in government.

Blairities will attempt to recapture the party now - and that will totally screw the energy of the rank and file party workers who had three terms of that politics which they know acheived very little.

London Irish · May 8, 2015

BLOCK F said:
Far too left .

1.) Kick out many of the old guard (if any remain)
2.) Appoint a modern fresh leader, preferably with a bit of experience outside politics.
3.) Promote and encourage those MP's who have brains.
4.) Get rid of the politics of envy and adopt a more moderate and aspirational ethos throughout the whole party.
5.)Lose the air of smug self righteousness and admit it when mistakes have been made.

I speak as a Tory Voter who believes that the country deserves a strong opposition,whichever party is in power.

So two Tory parties to choose from then

hans kraay fan club · May 8, 2015

London Irish said:
Miliband got it just right, left enough to hold the party together sick of Blair's wet Toryism, but right enough for a reasonable middle ground of non-ideological voter. He was just unlucky the Scotland issue flared up and the Tories used it to whip up English nationalism and a scare campaign against the terrible thing of allowing Scots some influence in government.

Exactly right.

That and the fact they lost the personality contest.

neilbard · May 8, 2015

Depends on your stand point really they could have been a tad too left centre left left or maybe they were a touch centre centre centre left I think personally they should have been more in out in out shake it all about! :facepalm:

neilbard · May 8, 2015

Seasidesage said:
Judging by the SNP success, you would have to say not socialist enough. But I think it's a much about personalities as anything now...

Yes I must agree Nicola Sturgeon has such a magnetic personality! :thumbsup:

London Irish · May 8, 2015

hans kraay fan club said:
Exactly right.

That and the fact they lost the personality contest.

Will always be tricky for a Labour leader on this so-called "personality" contest, because every one apart from Blair (who cut a deal with Rupert Murdoch, remember) will be battered by the mostly right-wing leaning newspapers.

I think Miliband when he had a fair fight - as in the debates - stood up really well and he absolutely killed Boris Johnson in their one joint appearance.

The Tory press have the power to define Labour leaders, the broadcasting press then frame their own reports around those "definitions".

Very little Labour leaders can do except fight the good fight or sell out to Murdoch like Blair did.

BLOCK F · May 8, 2015

London Irish said:
So two Tory parties to choose from then

Please yourself LI, but if you want the Labour Party to govern the country again,any time soon, they will have to move away from the politics of Ed Milliband and those that share his views.

Kosmonaut · May 8, 2015

London Irish said:
So two Tory parties to choose from then

One can argue that a strong centrist Labour party moderates the conservatives, whereas a weak or highly polemic left wing opposition in general pushes the conservatives more rightward.

London Irish · May 8, 2015

BLOCK F said:
Please yourself LI, but if you want the Labour Party to govern the country again,any time soon, they will have to ditch those who think like Ed Milliband.

I think the point of democracy is to give people a choice - Thatcher did say her greatest achievement was Blair. I hope Cameron's won't be Chuka bloody Umanna

BLOCK F · May 8, 2015

London Irish said:
Miliband got it just right, left enough to hold the party together sick of Blair's wet Toryism, but right enough for a reasonable middle ground of non-ideological voter. He was just unlucky the Scotland issue flared up and the Tories used it to whip up English nationalism and a scare campaign against the terrible thing of allowing Scots some influence in government.

Blairities will attempt to recapture the party now - and that will totally screw the energy of the rank and file party workers who had three terms of that politics which they know acheived very little.

'Milliband got it right'.
Blimey,what would have happened if he'd cocked up then

London Irish · May 8, 2015

Kosmonaut said:
One can argue that a strong centrist Labour party moderates the conservatives, whereas a weak or highly polemic left wing opposition in general pushes the conservatives more rightward.

What pushed the Conservatives rightward was UKIP. But still -- the Tories have let English nationalism out of the genie bottle - so let's see if it screws them up in the Euro referendum.

It's Europe what brought down Thatcher after all

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