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Poll - what would you like the UK to do re membership of the EU?

Poll - what would you like the UK to do re membership of the EU?

  • Stay in as we are

    Votes: 65 34.0%
  • Leave

    Votes: 53 27.7%
  • Stay in but renegotiate our position

    Votes: 73 38.2%

  • Total voters
    191








Gwylan

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
31,323
Uffern
None of them. I'd like us to work to reshape the EU itself as the institution is clearly not working. I'm not anti-European but the lack of transparency, the poor financial controls and the unwieldy structure are damaging the concept of the European Union (and that's before we mention the agriculture, fishing and industrial policies).

There are many politicians inside the EU who think that the organisation is in need of an overhaul and would be natural allies for us. Sadly, we've been saddled with a leader who thinks the way to work with other European countries is to insult and belittle them, thus limiting any hope of reform
 


Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
49,989
Goldstone
None of them. I'd like us to work to reshape the EU itself
I'm confused. If you'd like us to reshape it, do you think we could best do that by being part of it, or by leaving it first? I don't understand how you can not want any of the three outcomes I've suggested.
 






seagullsovergrimsby

#cpfctinpotclub
Aug 21, 2005
43,690
Crap Town
From a democratic point of view there should be a renegotiation. The downside is the other 26 EU member states will be sticking up two fingers at our proposal.
 






WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Jul 10, 2003
25,662
Thanks.
Oh. Do you not like the poll? What's wrong with it?

Every country in the EU are constantly trying to renegotiate their position. That's the nature of multi national politics. It's really just a simple in/out (and in your answer to Gwylan leaving it to then try and negotiate our way back in would an interesting approach ???)
 


Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
49,989
Goldstone
From a democratic point of view there should be a renegotiation. The downside is the other 26 EU member states will be sticking up two fingers at our proposal.
Well not necessarily. This is what I think the idea of a referendum is about.

If we're having a referendum, I'm sure the EU would like us to stay, as we contribute money. But a lot of the British public are fed-up with the way it's currently set up, so there's a danger we'll leave. And that gives our government the ideal opportunity to renegotiate prior to the referendum. Give us these changes, or the public will vote to leave.

Without a referendum, like you say, the other member states will stick up two (or one) finger(s) at our proposal. With a referendum, they'll have to take the proposal seriously.
 






Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
49,989
Goldstone
Every country in the EU are constantly trying to renegotiate their position. It's really just a simple in/out
It's not a simple in or out, as is evident by the fact that most people have voted to renegotiate. As things currently stand, without renegotiation, I think we'd be better off leaving the EU. But I'd much rather we renegotiate and then stay in.

Of course I accept that each country is constantly trying to renegotiate their position, but we're generally doing it from a very weak position. Just as with the Scottish referendum, the possibility of leaving would strengthen our position to renegotiate.
 




seagullsovergrimsby

#cpfctinpotclub
Aug 21, 2005
43,690
Crap Town
Well not necessarily. This is what I think the idea of a referendum is about.

If we're having a referendum, I'm sure the EU would like us to stay, as we contribute money. But a lot of the British public are fed-up with the way it's currently set up, so there's a danger we'll leave. And that gives our government the ideal opportunity to renegotiate prior to the referendum. Give us these changes, or the public will vote to leave.

Without a referendum, like you say, the other member states will stick up two (or one) finger(s) at our proposal. With a referendum, they'll have to take the proposal seriously.

But what happens if the Eurocrats decide that making concessions to the UK will set a precedent for Germany and France to stick in their demands too ? The EU could be willing to chop off its nose to spite its face to stop a domino effect.
 




Gwylan

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
31,323
Uffern
I'm confused. If you'd like us to reshape it, do you think we could best do that by being part of it, or by leaving it first? I don't understand how you can not want any of the three outcomes I've suggested.

Really? You gave three outcomes and I don't support any of them. Stay in as we are? No, for reasons I explained. Leave? No, for reasons I explained. Renegotiate our position? Sort of, but it implies that we're looking for are a few concessions, leaving the EU as it is. And, for reasons I explained, that's not a position I support.
 


Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
49,989
Goldstone
So that's an 'In' then. (Kind of hard to change the rules of something you don't belong to)
No, it's an 'in but renegotiate our position'. ie, if the EU won't accept a renegotiation, leave - so not just an 'in'.

But what happens if the Eurocrats decide that making concessions to the UK will set a precedent for Germany and France to stick in their demands too ? The EU could be willing to chop off its nose to spite its face to stop a domino effect.
It's very different for France and Germany as they're in the Eurozone. Either leaving would be a disaster for the EU, but it would also be very bad for France/Germany. I believe they also get a much better deal than us, so they've less reason to renegotiate.

As for our vote, we all have different opinion of course. For me, if they were unwilling to renegotiate, I'd want to leave. So if they want to chop off their nose, so be it.
 


BarnhamBlue

New member
Feb 15, 2012
129
Yapton
It's simple for me - stay in! Leaving the EU would affect so many jobs, mine included! Whilst the EU is not perfect, i don't believe anyone really understands the full implications of our exit.
 


Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
49,989
Goldstone
Really? You gave three outcomes and I don't support any of them. Stay in as we are? No, for reasons I explained. Leave? No, for reasons I explained. Renegotiate our position? Sort of, but it implies that we're looking for are a few concessions, leaving the EU as it is. And, for reasons I explained, that's not a position I support.
Understood. You'd like us to stay in, but completely change the way the EU is. Fair enough, but how do you suggest the UK do that?
 






seagullsovergrimsby

#cpfctinpotclub
Aug 21, 2005
43,690
Crap Town
It's simple for me - stay in! Leaving the EU would affect so many jobs, mine included! Whilst the EU is not perfect, i don't believe anyone really understands the full implications of our exit.

How would so many jobs be affected when the UK is a member of the World Trade Organisation ?
 



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