The case against the Defence

Kosh · Apr 25, 2015

I think many of us accept the crux of our woes is a stunning inability to find the back of the net, akin to a desperate virgin fumbling in the dark for something resembling a woman.

I however blame our porous defence (IN EQUAL MEASURE - EDIT! JESUS READ THE TOP LINE FFS), or the colander as I call it. Recent history points to a huge problem - Greer, especially this season, is literally the beating heart of those 'issues.' In reality I can't blame Hughton for being focussed on protecting our defence and sacrificing attacking intent, when it's crystal clear that playing 2 upfront - or dare I say it?!? go 'gung ho' will result in championship opponents adeptly breaking and betraying our lack of pace with devastating regularity.

Sami paid with his job by trying to be more 'positive'; and now Hughton likewise; (on the rare occasion when the defensive midfield cover is removed, we concede at will) is seeing the folly of anything other than laboured build up with one eye firmly on caution.

Poyet had the tools to undo teams in the final third, now alas 'we aint' - hence we're facing odd goal defeat week after week. Open up and it's the old 3-2 3-0 3-1 reverse.

Long 'agonising' story short - total defensive overhaul required: New LB, RB CB and CB with pace, power and the ability to cover a team playing two up top FFS! Will we get it? I f'ing doubt it.

Greer - go/retire.
Halford - back up.
Dunk - starter/back up.
Bruno - go/back up
Bennett - go.
Chicksen - go.
Calde - back up/coach.

if we fail, we're going down next season - simple as that.

Obviously we need to strengthen - errrmmm all over the park, but I see the above as utterly essential.

Rock on.

Acker79 · Apr 25, 2015

The case for the defence:

The table if it was decided on goals conceded:

Middlesbrough 34
Bournemouth 45
Norwich 45
Sheff Wed 49
Watford 49
Derby 50
Ipswich 50
Brighton 54
Wolves 54
Blackburn 55
Charlton 56
Cardiff 58
Brentford 59
Wigan 60
Leeds 61
Birmingham 64
Bolton 64
Nottm Forest 65
Reading 65
Rotherham* 65
Millwall 69
Huddersfield 73
Fulham 76
Blackpool 88

Luke93 · Apr 25, 2015

Please stop. Our issues this season are clear to see. You're miles off.

Kosh · Apr 25, 2015

Acker79 said:
The case for the defence:

The table if it was decided on goals conceded:

Middlesbrough 34
Bournemouth 45
Norwich 45
Sheff Wed 49
Watford 49
Derby 50
Ipswich 50
Brighton 54
Wolves 54
Blackburn 55
Charlton 56
Cardiff 58
Brentford 59
Wigan 60
Leeds 61
Birmingham 64
Bolton 64
Nottm Forest 65
Reading 65
Rotherham* 65
Millwall 69
Huddersfield 73
Fulham 76
Blackpool 88

Yes - what's your point?!? We don't concede many, as we're set up to protect a woeful back four - which whenever exposed concedes for fun. We hardly attack anyone and boy when we do... we're ship goals like Lynott and Hughes shipped coke into LA in the 80s i.e. SHIT LOADS.

Lurchy · Apr 25, 2015

Genuinely feel that you'd find it extremely hard to find someone who wouldn't agree with you that the defence does need strengthening, club def needs a leftback and a central defender at least, but given that is it the area that needs prioritising? Certainly not. Our goal difference is now -10, highly respectable for any club who finishes in the bottom half of the table. Main problem has been the lack of goals, main focus should be on finding that 20 goal a year striker and a couple of creative players who can make the assists.

Kosh · Apr 25, 2015

Luke93 said:
Please stop. Our issues this season are clear to see. You're miles off.

wtf?!? like Greer is MILES of the pace... hmmmm perhaps you're on the money - I mean clearly we're world beaters defensively. Greer is still in a different time zone to the Watford attacking line some 4 hours after the final whistle.

You have your opinion I have mine.

Norman Baker suck my lozenge · Apr 25, 2015

Got a dreadful feeling Bloom is not going to strengthen the team as much as We need,Hughton could walk next weekend as I think He's twigged on.

Wilko · Apr 25, 2015

Kosh said:
Yes - what's your point?!? We don't concede many, as we're set up to protect a woeful back four - which whenever exposed concedes for fun. We hardly attack anyone and boy when we do... we're ship goals like Lynott and Hughes shipped coke into LA in the 80s i.e. SHIT LOADS.

Exactly THIS. People keep saying how well our defence does, of course they do if we do not bloody attack and start a game with 8 or 9 defensive players. I can't be the only one who is willing to sacrifice letting a few more in for the sake of attacking once in a while.

stss30 · Apr 25, 2015

Bennett is hopeless, absolutely hopeless at defending. Please don't sign him.

Luke93 · Apr 25, 2015

Of course the defence needs strengthening. That, however, doesn't make it the top priority. Scoring goals is the most important part of football, without a goal, the best you can hope for is one point. The foundation of every team should be a solid Defence, and then you build from there. Currently though, our defence IS perfectly adequate. Being 8th best in the league isn't my opinion, it's a fact. You could say we set up to play defensively, but tell me a team which doesn't?? Every team in the devision aims for a clean sheet.

This season there has been one outstanding issue, goal scoring. Where did he issue of goal scoring arise? From poor summer recruitment. That's bleeding obvious to see. Singing a decent pair of strikers should be our priority next season, equally with a creative spark to play in midfield. After those (more important issues) are sorted, we can look to improve the 8th best defence in the league. The only difference between this season and last is having a decent striker (Ulloa).
[MENTION=1104]seagulls4ever[/MENTION] care to share your opinion? Or are you just going to sit there giving me the thumb?

Kosh · Apr 25, 2015

Luke93 said:
Of course the defence needs strengthening. That, however, doesn't make it the top priority. Scoring goals is the most important part of football, without a goal, the best you can hope for is one point. The foundation of every team should be a solid Defence, and then you build from there. Currently though, our defence IS perfectly adequate. Being 8th best in the league isn't my opinion, it's a fact. You could say we set up to play defensively, but tell me a team which doesn't?? Every team in the devision aims for a clean sheet.

This season there has been one outstanding issue, goal scoring. Where did he issue of goal scoring arise? From poor summer recruitment. That's bleeding obvious to see. Singing a decent pair of strikers should be our priority next season, equally with a creative spark to play in midfield. After those (more important issues) are sorted, we can look to improve the 8th best defence in the league. The only difference between this season and last is having a decent striker (Ulloa).

Errrmmmmm gee let me think - Bournemouth, Watford, Derby to name but three... YES we've had a terrible season in attack too - but we don't provide any service and when we do it's hit and hope time baby. Nah - we're setting up not to concede as we know full well we can't match any team in this league for pace, power and strength across our back four/three or two under Sami.

GT49er · Apr 25, 2015

We are going to have to go looking for a left back for next season (again), and we also need at least to start thinking about phasing out our ageing back four (well, most of them). Don't see that as a priority, though, and we can't expect TB to spend enough money to improve in ALL departments this summer.
Possibly though, the midfield is spending too much time and effort protecting the back four - but the urgent priority for this summer is finding someone who can convert chances (and half chances) even if these don't come very frequently.

Kosh · Apr 25, 2015

[MENTION=27934]Luke93[/MENTION] "perfectly adequate" hmmmmmmmmmmmm yeah bro.

jimbob5 · Apr 25, 2015

Acker79 said:
The case for the defence:

The table if it was decided on goals conceded:

Middlesbrough 34
Bournemouth 45
Norwich 45
Sheff Wed 49
Watford 49
Derby 50
Ipswich 50
Brighton 54
Wolves 54
Blackburn 55
Charlton 56
Cardiff 58
Brentford 59
Wigan 60
Leeds 61
Birmingham 64
Bolton 64
Nottm Forest 65
Reading 65
Rotherham* 65
Millwall 69
Huddersfield 73
Fulham 76
Blackpool 88

Interesting stat. Tells us that the team might not be as bad as we think but the forwards are every bit as bad as we think!

the wanderbus · Apr 25, 2015

Kosh said:
I think many of us accept the crux of our woes is a stunning inability to find the back of the net, akin to a desperate virgin fumbling in the dark for something resembling a woman.

I however blame our porous defence (IN EQUAL MEASURE - EDIT! JESUS READ THE TOP LINE FFS), or the colander as I call it. Recent history points to a huge problem - Greer, especially this season, is literally the beating heart of those 'issues.' In reality I can't blame Hughton for being focussed on protecting our defence and sacrificing attacking intent, when it's crystal clear that playing 2 upfront - or dare I say it?!? go 'gung ho' will result in championship opponents adeptly breaking and betraying our lack of pace with devastating regularity.

Sami paid with his job by trying to be more 'positive'; and now Hughton likewise; (on the rare occasion when the defensive midfield cover is removed, we concede at will) is seeing the folly of anything other than laboured build up with one eye firmly on caution.

Poyet had the tools to undo teams in the final third, now alas 'we aint' - hence we're facing odd goal defeat week after week. Open up and it's the old 3-2 3-0 3-1 reverse.

Long 'agonising' story short - total defensive overhaul required: New LB, RB CB and CB with pace, power and the ability to cover a team playing two up top FFS! Will we get it? I f'ing doubt it.

Greer - go/retire.
Halford - back up.
Dunk - starter/back up.
Bruno - go/back up
Bennett - go.
Chicksen - go.
Calde - back up/coach.

if we fail, we're going down next season - simple as that.

Obviously we need to strengthen - errrmmm all over the park, but I see the above as utterly essential.

Rock on.

Post of the day, the only things I can disagree with is wasting money on signing Halford and keeping the HUGELY overrated Dunk

Kosh · Apr 25, 2015

jimbob5 said:
Interesting stat. Tells us that the team might not be as bad as we think but the forwards are every bit as bad as we think!

I couldn't disagree more. It confirms my belief that we're ULTRA defensive in order to protect a creaking and porous back line. Greer's finished, Bennett is league 2 fodder, Dunk isn't that great, Bruno is literally the embodiment of a journey man at the end of the road and Calde likewise. We play one upfront for a reason, so the holding midfielder(s) can help Greer to cross the street.

I'm perplexed that anyone thinks our defence is 'good' - are you shitting me? Mistakes, personal nightmares aside it's a poor, poor championship backline. Age has got the better of it, that and some immensely poor signings/transfer (in &out) events/non events.

SUIYHP · Apr 25, 2015

We do need an improved defence but I think the priority is going to be finding the right forwards who can prove their worth by winning us games. We build a good offensive side in the Summer with maybe some development in the Defence and see our position by December, hopefully if we aren't down the shitter then we can work on our defence.

Kosh · Apr 25, 2015

SUIYHP said:
We do need an improved defence but I think the priority is going to be finding the right forwards who can prove their worth by winning us games. We build a good offensive side in the Summer with maybe some development in the Defence and see our position by December, hopefully if we aren't down the shitter then we can work on our defence.

Hark - a balanced and reasoned response - I agree with much of the above. Well said.

jimbob5 · Apr 25, 2015

Kosh said:
I couldn't disagree more. It confirms my belief that we're ULTRA defensive in order to protect a creaking and porous back line. Greer's finished, Bennett is league 2 fodder, Dunk isn't that great, Bruno is literally the embodiment of a journey man at the end of the road and Calde likewise. We play one upfront for a reason, so the holding midfielder(s) can help Greer to cross the street.

I'm perplexed that anyone thinks our defence is 'good' - are you shitting me? Mistakes, personal nightmares aside it's a poor, poor championship backline. Age has got the better of it, that and some immensely poor signings/transfer (in &out) events/non events.

Don't buy the theory that we can't score cos we're worried that our own defenders might be a bit creaky.

Tom Hark Preston Park · Apr 25, 2015

There's no case to answer for the defence. They played pretty solidly throughout. But Deeney and Vydra are top-class strikers. That what separates us from Watford. Our strikers are poundshop by comparison, every last one of them. That's what happens when you flog off major proven assets like Ulloa and Barnes for a fast buck and replace them on the cheap.

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The case against the Defence

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