Woeful season, but potentially invaluable lessons learned for the future?

stss30 · Apr 21, 2015

Lets face it the season as a whole has been pretty horrendous, and we've been arguably pretty lucky to survive (assuming we get 0 points from our next two games).

However, hopefully the people associated with the club have learned some valuable lessons

Bloom

-Got lucky by all accounts that Hyypia resigned as I truly believe we would be all but relegated by now if he was still in charge. When there is a large amount of unrest amongst our fanbase as a whole (and not just a loud negative minority on here) I would say things need to be seriously looked into instead of keeping blind faith with a manager.

-Investment, you simply cannot get away with selling some of your prized assets and trying to get replacements on the cheap, we've gone from having a top Championship striker in Ulloa to lower league players who will all have to be moved on at the end of the season, however despite the lower budget our recruitment team was obviously doing an awful job and it was a smart move to get rid of Burke

-Although he's relatively new to becoming a football chairman, I hope this seasons developments have prompted him to have a closer understanding of what's actually going on at the club, instead of trusting that the suits will do a good job and taking an apparent back seat role.

Barber

-Seems to have relented recently with the constant price hikes, hopefully he's beginning to realize the fans are no mugs and will vote with their feet (and wallet) if we're getting the piss taken out of us.

Tom Hark Preston Park · Apr 21, 2015

Come back and start this thread again when the hotel is up and running. Until then the suspicion will remain that real estate is the club's core business, with the footballing side of things an afterthought.

GreersElbow · Apr 21, 2015

Tom Hark said:
Come back and start this thread again when the hotel is up and running. Until then the suspicion will remain that real estate is the club's core business, with the footballing side of things an afterthought.

Club money isn't paying for it, so why would it?

Tony Meolas Loan Spell · Apr 22, 2015

Can I add:

Dont ****ing willy wave over proven champ full backs (Ward) I dont care what your spreadsheet said.

Have the squad in place in the summer not have CMS, Fenelon, Casper as No1 and Calde first choice LEFT back with 10 days to go. It happened.

Dont buy top scorers from lower leagues as MAIN striker it doesnt ****ing work - CMS, Ballsack. Or spanish midgets that may need bedding in - Clunge.

And DONT ****ing fill the squad with loans unless thwy are the quality of Upson, Bridge, Tex etc and not Gardner, Best.

Mo Gosfield · Apr 22, 2015

Tony Meolas Loan Spell said:
Can I add:

Dont buy top scorers from lower leagues as MAIN striker it doesnt ****ing work - CMS, Ballsack. Or spanish midgets that may need bedding in - Clunge.

Unless they happen to be Troy Deeney, Calum Wison, Jordan Rhodes, Britt Assombalonga, Glenn Murray, Adam Le Fondre and Vicente. To name just a few.

chaileyjem · Apr 22, 2015

stss30 said:
-Investment, you simply cannot get away with selling some of your prized assets and trying to get replacements on the cheap, we've gone from having a top Championship striker in Ulloa to lower league players who will all have to be moved on at the end of the season, however despite the lower budget our recruitment team was obviously doing an awful job and it was a smart move to get rid of Burke
.

1) All Championship Clubs sell their prized assets. Nearly all Champ clubs make a healthy average profit from selling players. So you can get away with it.

2) The recruitment team didn't have a lower budget.

stss30 · Apr 22, 2015

chaileyjem said:
1) All Championship Clubs sell their prized assets. Nearly all Champ clubs make a healthy average profit from selling players. So you can get away with it.

2) The recruitment team didn't have a lower budget.

1) Clubs who are serious about promotion try to keep their players at all costs unless they get an offer they can't refuse, selling almost all of your best players then not spending money for quality replacements is unforgivable

2) If you honestly believe the clubs 'party line' that the budget was the same then that's fine, but we've gone from having former internationals and top class players like Upson, Bridge, Vicente, Kuszczak to players like Best and Gardner. IF our budget really is the same we must be the biggest morons at negotiating contracts in the football league

Simster · Apr 22, 2015

Mistakes happen. You have to allow your better players to progress because if they feel like they won't progress, they won't come here in the first place, and then when the time comes for them to be replaced, sometimes they won't be replaced adequately.

And honestly, whilst fans get angry at watching crap on the pitch, they are also usually fair enough to see when the dust settles that football is cyclical, and can't forever expect success. That's why we don't support Man Utd, Arsenal, Liverpool etc.

So honestly, I'd say the biggest lesson to be learned is not to treat your fans (especially season ticket holders) with contempt, like cash cows to be ignored whilst you merrily ruin the squad, and then mug them off with shitty smug emails when things have quite clearly been completely fcked up by those whose jobs were to assemble the playing side. Because that, quite simply, was the one inexcusable episode I can remember in the 4 years we've had at the Amex.

father_and_son · Apr 22, 2015

stss30 said:
Bloom

-Got lucky by all accounts that Hyypia resigned as I truly believe we would be all but relegated by now if he was still in charge. When there is a large amount of unrest amongst our fanbase as a whole (and not just a loud negative minority on here) I would say things need to be seriously looked into instead of keeping blind faith with a manager.

I think that what Bloom/Board had said publicly about SH and what was being said privately could have been very different things. Having already parted company with GP very publicly and OG very quickly, there is the possibility that BHAFC would have looked like a bad place for a manager to come to work.

It may or may not be the case, but it is certainly plausable, that TB was saying "we will support our manager through the difficult times" in public and "f*ck off Sami" in private just so that the club look like the sort of place that a manager will be supported and therefore an attractive place to come and work. Some compromise agreement including a non-disclosure clause may mean that SH and the board will always retain the public facade that SH honourably fell on his sword despite the continued support of the club... doesn't mean that it is true.

Obviously I have no idea what the truth is, but I'm happy to take all the club's public statements (both good and bad) with a pinch of salt and a healthy dose of cynicism because I believe that TB is an extremely astute business man and wouldn't jeopardise the club (and his investment) out of blind loyalty, but will offer the sort of bluff a poker player would be proud of.

Justice · Apr 22, 2015

Its going to be a long summer.

stss30 · Apr 22, 2015

father_and_son said:
I think that what Bloom/Board had said publicly about SH and what was being said privately could have been very different things. Having already parted company with GP very publicly and OG very quickly, there is the possibility that BHAFC would have looked like a bad place for a manager to come to work.

It may or may not be the case, but it is certainly plausable, that TB was saying "we will support our manager through the difficult times" in public and "f*ck off Sami" in private just so that the club look like the sort of place that a manager will be supported and therefore an attractive place to come and work. Some compromise agreement including a non-disclosure clause may mean that SH and the board will always retain the public facade that SH honourably fell on his sword despite the continued support of the club... doesn't mean that it is true.

Obviously I have no idea what the truth is, but I'm happy to take all the club's public statements (both good and bad) with a pinch of salt and a healthy dose of cynicism because I believe that TB is an extremely astute business man and wouldn't jeopardise the club (and his investment) out of blind loyalty, but will offer the sort of bluff a poker player would be proud of.

You could be right. I'm not sure whether it was true or NSC rumour but wasn't it hinted at that Bloom flew back to Australia with no apparent intention of sacking Hyypia and then after the resignation a week or so later flew back for the interview process for the new manager? We will probably never know in truth.

Biscuit · Apr 22, 2015

Four words.

Pay. The. Going. Rate.

If we're not willing to pay what others will then we need to set expectations. Telling the fans you expect a top 6 finish and then scrapping just clear of relegation is unacceptable.

How we missed out on Ward is unbelievable. Not replacing Ulloa with proven quality was almost equally as stupid. We've blown it for a few good years to come. It'll take a long time to get the momentum back and get the balanced squad that Poyet assembled.

chaileyjem · Apr 22, 2015

stss30 said:
2) IF our budget really is the same...

The budget isn't the same. Its bigger than 2013/4 and 2012/13. Tony Bloom has said that in public several times this season. And Paul Barber confirmed it last week. Fine if you don't want to believe it . Many fans don't .But the club have to publish their accounts so we'll see if that isn't the case... As for whether the recruitment team/managers spent that money wisely then i'd say the answer to that is pretty obvious.

KZNSeagull · Apr 22, 2015

Biscuit said:
Four words.

Pay. The. Going. Rate.

If we're not willing to pay what others will then we need to set expectations. Telling the fans you expect a top 6 finish and then scrapping just clear of relegation is unacceptable.

How we missed out on Ward is unbelievable. Not replacing Ulloa with proven quality was almost equally as stupid. We've blown it for a few good years to come. It'll take a long time to get the momentum back and get the balanced squad that Poyet assembled.

But we were going to pay the going rate for Ward. We cannot compete if a PL team comes in and offers him more.

chaileyjem · Apr 22, 2015

Biscuit said:
Pay. The. Going. Rate.

How we missed out on Ward is unbelievable.

Its entirely believable. We agreed a fee (finally) with Wolves for Ward and he'd agreed a contract. No other Champ club were in for him.
Then Burnley right at the death, came in and offered him a Premier League contract (average Champ wage 8-10K, average Prem wage 30/40K) which would have set his family up for life financially and substantially more than the club could offer. He chose the Prem Contract. What do you think Ward or the club should have done differently in the circumstances ?

BLOCK F · Apr 22, 2015

Agree with much that has been said and put in a plea never to become Brighton and Loan Albion again.

Shipley8312 · Apr 22, 2015

biggest lesson for this year should be you can't build a winning team with 5 of the 11 on loan from other clubs its like putting a plaster on a stab wound.

clubs like bournemouth have shown its better to have team of good players they own who will fight for each other rather than players who know they can always walk away at the end of the season to their parent clubs

BensGrandad · Apr 22, 2015

Is it not possible that in order to avoid being cast as a bad pace for mangers to work at, TB encouraged SH to resign despite saying publicly that he was disappointed. Doesnt have to be shown as left by mutual consent.

BensGrandad · Apr 22, 2015

chaileyjem said:
Its entirely believable. We agreed a fee (finally) with Wolves for Ward and he'd agreed a contract. No other Champ club were in for him.
Then Burnley right at the death, came in and offered him a Premier League contract (average Champ wage 8-10K, average Prem wage 30/40K) which would have set his family up for life financially and substantially more than the club could offer. He chose the Prem Contract. What do you think Ward or the club should have done differently in the circumstances ?

Burnley do not pay anybody that kind of money. He would have been on 17k a week max. It was reported Barnes got an extra £500 per week at Burnley and Ward the same as he was on at Wolves.

stss30 · Apr 22, 2015

chaileyjem said:
The budget isn't the same. Its bigger than 2013/4 and 2012/13. Tony Bloom has said that in public several times this season. And Paul Barber confirmed it last week. Fine if you don't want to believe it . Many fans don't .But the club have to publish their accounts so we'll see if that isn't the case... As for whether the recruitment team/managers spent that money wisely then i'd say the answer to that is pretty obvious.

I imagine IF the budget is higher it is due to the transfer fees for Baldock, Stockdale,O'Grady and Kayal. But lets be honest that doesn't scratch the surface of the profit we made from selling Ulloa, Bridcutt and Buckley. If you sell three of your top players and the club keep spouting the 'Premier league ready' stuff you would expect almost all of that money to be reinvested on top quality replacements. Instead it seems the club realized all too late that the squad wasn't strong enough and we started scrabbling around for loans who could fill in the gaping holes in our squad left by their departures.

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