[Cricket] England Cricket RIP

vegster · Feb 20, 2015

I'd just like to say a fond farewell to the England Cricket team who finally passed away overnight after a long illness bravely borne.
A transfusion of South African blood a few years ago temporarily slowed the decline but unfortunately could not arrest the malaise at cricket's heart. A desperate gamble involving a untried unit of Irish blood was unable to prevent it's passing. At this time of great sadness our thoughts must be with England's finest sons, Botham,Gower,Boycott and Atherton who were forced to watch at the bedside as the old gentleman subsided overnight. The end, when it came was mercifully quick as the middle and late order slipped away for 19 runs and the New Zealander, Dr McCullum, pronounced the death as official with dignified, but, unhurried efficiency.

On a personal note I would like to thank England for some memorable good times in the last 10 years or so which made up for the painful progression from youth to manhood bestowed upon England by the West Indies and Australians. The Summers of 2005 and 2010/1, particularly, will live on in our memories for many years. RIP.

Titanic · Feb 20, 2015

Oh come on Vegster... the darkest hour is always just before the dawn... we can still WIN this! :thumbsup:

spring hall convert · Feb 20, 2015

Alastair Cook's the only one having a good world cup so far. His Test captaincy has never looked safer.

Hotchilidog · Feb 20, 2015

Titanic said:
Oh come on Vegster... the darkest hour is always just before the dawn... we can still WIN this!

That's the spirit :thumbsup:

maltaseagull · Feb 20, 2015

Titanic said:
Oh come on Vegster... the darkest hour is always just before the dawn... we can still WIN this!

There is a note of hysteria here!

To win matches we will need to score 300+ and this team cannot. Our one day and 20-20 batting is pathetic.
Our fielding and bowling are third rate.

In fairness we should be relegated and made to qualify in future.

Bold Seagull · Feb 20, 2015

In 2012 it should have been clear that something was very wrong with England. The wake up call should have been in the winter of 2011/12 when Pakistan completely dismantled England (Pakistan who themselves were in disarray at the time) and exposed some serious flaws in the team, both on the field and in spirit. This was partially rescued by a scrambled draw away to Sri Lanka, but then evident again in how easy South Africa defeated us in the summer of 2012.

But, we were still top dogs all ready to keep patting ourselves on the back without realising there was nothing coming through to bolster the side. Again, superb performances from KP and Cook delivered a series win in India which proved to be another flash when in the winter of 2012/13 we looked abject against New Zealand.

Then came the Ashes in 2013 and probably the most flattering series scoreline in the history of the game. England were poor, Australia were poor but rallied after the appointment of Lehman. England still refused to stare down the fact that something was seriously wrong within this team and had been since the end of 2011.

Australia were poor leading up to 2013 and also struggled in a couple of years previous. However in Lehman, they found someone who shook that team to it's core. No more undermining of the captain by Watson, bat at 5 shut up or you're out, job done. Warner given the protective fatherly treatment, encouraged to play his way from the off. The cliques were dealt with, new young players bought in, reputations tossed aside. Their transformation under Lehman has been nothing short of incredible. Most thought, including me, he was just going to bring a few beers in and be one of the lads. How wrong we were. This is a steely coach, striking me in the mould of say an Alex Ferguson, an old school desire to win, a ruthlessness as well as a warm devotion from his players.

Meanwhile, England have looked for scapegoats, "it was KP's fault, let's get rid of him", we've allowed players out of form to retain their place for months even years without trying to bring new players through. When suddenly we need a opener is it any surprise no one is ready? No one was tested in the role while Cook and Strauss were there, Strauss retires, Cook's form then disappears and we're completely f*cked.

4 years on from the point at which we should have realised we needed a revolution in the side, and we're still tinkering about with the same old formula. It reminds me of the early '90's when we'd destroy new young players because they'd come into a team already racked with doubt and lack of confidence and have no platform to succeed, inevitably fail and they'd be dropped again. We're doing the same thing now. We have the undroppable's in the side who don't outperform new players, but they keep their place while we seem to jettison others for far less.

Desperate times. Lehman didn't stumble on a new genius set of players. He took the group that were failing and transformed them. Built their confidence, built the confidence of those coming in, created a mentality and a belief. I don't think anything has changed for England. I don't think Moores has the power Lehman was given by Cricket Australia.

We're going to get smashed in this world cup and smashed this summer. Could be a long road back to success for us.

*note I realise this is all about Test cricket above, and we're talking about a ODI world cup, but I think the principles remain the same nonetheless...

Brovion · Feb 20, 2015

You think things are bad now, what if we lose to Scotland? If you think they bang on about Bannockburn, Wembley 1967 and the Grand Slam of 1990 it'll be nothing compared to beating us at cricket.

studio150 · Feb 20, 2015

The real concern will be if we lose the next CWC15 game which is against Scotland.

However off the back of the NZ performance i would suspect that anyone who has day 3 or 4 tickets for this summers Ashes may be getting worried about seeing any Cricket.

Uncle Buck · Feb 20, 2015

We did beat India 3-1 at home in the summer, so regarding the test side, lets see what issues there are at the end of the Windies series.

The ODI side is a problem. Too often it has been used to blood players for the test side, rather than build a successful limited overs side.

The lack of a left arm seamer was always going to be an issue.

Also the fact is they have dropped players (Stokes and Hales) who struggled in the sub continent but have thrived on the Australian pitches. That does not seem that sensible.

Mo Gosfield · Feb 20, 2015

vegster said:
I'd just like to say a fond farewell to the England Cricket team who finally passed away overnight after a long illness bravely borne.
A transfusion of South African blood a few years ago temporarily slowed the decline but unfortunately could not arrest the malaise at cricket's heart. A desperate gamble involving a untried unit of Irish blood was unable to prevent it's passing. At this time of great sadness our thoughts must be with England's finest sons, Botham,Gower,Boycott and Atherton who were forced to watch at the bedside as the old gentleman subsided overnight. The end, when it came was mercifully quick as the middle and late order slipped away for 19 runs and the New Zealander, Dr McCullum, pronounced the death as official with dignified, but, unhurried efficiency.

On a personal note I would like to thank England for some memorable good times in the last 10 years or so which made up for the painful progression from youth to manhood bestowed upon England by the West Indies and Australians. The Summers of 2005 and 2010/1, particularly, will live on in our memories for many years. RIP.

Beautifully put.
I too knew English Cricket. I first made its acquaintance about 50 years ago, through its grandparents, Dexter and Cowdrey and its fiery Great Uncle Trueman. We always got excited when our distant friends from the Caribbean came to visit. They were so vibrant, with their calypso singing and the cavalier way they played the game. It was always competitive. Our distant relatives Down Under were always regarded as brash and tried to show us up and our Maiden Aunt from St.Johns Wood used to treat them with caution. But it was always competitive. Our Sub-Continental Colonial counterparts blew very hot and cold but were always talented as were our Dutch relatives from the Cape. It was always competitive, sometimes one-sided in our favour. As for the New Zealand wing of our family, well, we rather looked down on them and usually beat them quite comfortably.
As the new generation came through, Uncles Boycott, Gooch, Gower and Botham carried on the competitive tradition, that we had come to expect and nephews Atherton, Stewart and Gough also did their best and very rarely let us down.
Sadly, the present generation have had it too easy, have got lazy and not bothered to listen to advice from their elders. They thought they knew it all and didn't have to work hard. They preferred not to work on technique and listened to ill-informed advice that told them that consistently bowling short was a good strategy.
The star pupil was chucked out of school, without even having a meeting with the headmaster. Apparently, he was disruptive but the performance within class seems to have declined with his departure.
My thoughts and sympathy go to the family. No one likes to see a relative go so quickly and in so much distress. Maybe its a merciful end and those closest can rebuild their lives. Yes, there is sorrow but there is anger as well that this illness was not diagnosed before and that those who should have known better were in denial and ignored the symptoms.
R.I.P.

simmo · Feb 20, 2015

I am wondering if the England’s cricket team performance today was the worst/most disgraceful professional performance by one of our sporting teams in a World Cup stage eg. Football, cricket, rugby any other sport.

Any other notable low points in a sporting world cup or equivalent of to beat this?

I know we have lost to Holland at cricket and that in itself was bad enough but it was close and Holland squeezed home on the last ball

....today's display and the manner of the defeat was just really humiliating to be honest. The players should be utterly ashamed of themselves and they should donate any match fee to charity because none of them deserve to pick up a penny for that.

beakyburn · Feb 20, 2015

maltaseagull said:
There is a note of hysteria here!

To win matches we will need to score 300+ and this team cannot. Our one day and 20-20 batting is pathetic.
Our fielding and bowling are third rate.

In fairness we should be relegated and made to qualify in future.

When Moores was last in charge we became a joke and he got pushed out. In comes Flower and the rest they say is history. In comes Moores again and we are
back to the joke stage. At least out of this group he is the only one showing any consistency.

carteater · Feb 20, 2015

They were ****, something has to change.

dazzer6666 · Feb 20, 2015

simmo said:
I am wondering if the England’s cricket team performance today was the worst/most disgraceful professional performance by one of our sporting teams in a World Cup stage eg. Football, cricket, rugby any other sport.

Any other notable low points in a sporting world cup or equivalent of to beat this?

I know we have lost to Holland at cricket and that in itself was bad enough but it was close and Holland squeezed home on the last ball....today's display and the manner of the defeat was just really humiliating to be honest. The players should be utterly ashamed of themselves and they should donate any match fee to charity because none of them deserve to pick up a penny for that.

Spot on. Shambolic stuff.

spring hall convert · Feb 20, 2015

Bold Seagull said:
In 2012 it should have been clear that something was very wrong with England. The wake up call should have been in the winter of 2011/12 when Pakistan completely dismantled England (Pakistan who themselves were in disarray at the time) and exposed some serious flaws in the team, both on the field and in spirit. This was partially rescued by a scrambled draw away to Sri Lanka, but then evident again in how easy South Africa defeated us in the summer of 2012.

But, we were still top dogs all ready to keep patting ourselves on the back without realising there was nothing coming through to bolster the side. Again, superb performances from KP and Cook delivered a series win in India which proved to be another flash when in the winter of 2012/13 we looked abject against New Zealand.

Then came the Ashes in 2013 and probably the most flattering series scoreline in the history of the game. England were poor, Australia were poor but rallied after the appointment of Lehman. England still refused to stare down the fact that something was seriously wrong within this team and had been since the end of 2011.

Australia were poor leading up to 2013 and also struggled in a couple of years previous. However in Lehman, they found someone who shook that team to it's core. No more undermining of the captain by Watson, bat at 5 shut up or you're out, job done. Warner given the protective fatherly treatment, encouraged to play his way from the off. The cliques were dealt with, new young players bought in, reputations tossed aside. Their transformation under Lehman has been nothing short of incredible. Most thought, including me, he was just going to bring a few beers in and be one of the lads. How wrong we were. This is a steely coach, striking me in the mould of say an Alex Ferguson, an old school desire to win, a ruthlessness as well as a warm devotion from his players.

Meanwhile, England have looked for scapegoats, "it was KP's fault, let's get rid of him", we've allowed players out of form to retain their place for months even years without trying to bring new players through. When suddenly we need a opener is it any surprise no one is ready? No one was tested in the role while Cook and Strauss were there, Strauss retires, Cook's form then disappears and we're completely f*cked.

4 years on from the point at which we should have realised we needed a revolution in the side, and we're still tinkering about with the same old formula. It reminds me of the early '90's when we'd destroy new young players because they'd come into a team already racked with doubt and lack of confidence and have no platform to succeed, inevitably fail and they'd be dropped again. We're doing the same thing now. We have the undroppable's in the side who don't outperform new players, but they keep their place while we seem to jettison others for far less.

Desperate times. Lehman didn't stumble on a new genius set of players. He took the group that were failing and transformed them. Built their confidence, built the confidence of those coming in, created a mentality and a belief. I don't think anything has changed for England. I don't think Moores has the power Lehman was given by Cricket Australia.

We're going to get smashed in this world cup and smashed this summer. Could be a long road back to success for us.

*note I realise this is all about Test cricket above, and we're talking about a ODI world cup, but I think the principles remain the same nonetheless...

The recent farce with the ODI captaincy was hilarious. I was no fan of Cook in ODI's but we've subsitituted, one meek, tactically naive, out of form captain, who couldn't buy a run with the bat for another.

The last two results were highly predicatable by anyone that takes more than a passing interest in the game. This New Zealand side (who I've backed) are seriously good but they don't have any special players (bar perhaps McCullum.) They are a fantastic team though.

England's world cup (which was only ever "can we sneak into the 1/4 finals") starts now. If we make the 1/4 finals we'll play a proper team there and get humiliated again.

Also, I know we can't fire him now but I said at the time and I'll say it again, Moores was a terrible appointment. Emblematic of the complacent, don't rock the boat culture at the core of English cricket. Now Pietersen's out of the picture, who's left to blame?

spring hall convert · Feb 20, 2015

beakyburn said:
When Moores was last in charge we became a joke and he got pushed out. In comes Flower and the rest they say is history. In comes Moores again and we are
back to the joke stage. At least out of this group he is the only one showing any consistency.

We were a really bad joke under Flower in Australia as well. That had run its course.

Gregory2Smith1 · Feb 20, 2015

I lost my interest in Pyjama Cricket a long time ago,the equvilant of watching Rugby 7's for me

the Cricket World Cup needs serious overhauling,should be 2 innings matches to give it some credence

sure there is a place for ODI's running along side a test series,but it's just not cricket old boy!

sten_super · Feb 20, 2015

Uncle Buck said:
The lack of a left arm seamer was always going to be an issue.

Also the fact is they have dropped players (Stokes and Hales) who struggled in the sub continent but have thrived on the Australian pitches. That does not seem that sensible.

Is the lack of a left armer really a problem? Yes Moores likes someone a bit different, and he bought in Sidebottom previously (to very good effect). I'm not sure it's the massive issue that's it's been made out to be recently though.

The selectors (at least any in the job longer than twelve months) should be fired/resign after the series. It's not just the dropping of Stokes (which has been made much worse with hindsight - he looked like he was batting with a stick of rhubarb last time he played for England but has come back into form late in the day) or the refusal to play Hales (which presumably is down to Moores/Morgan as he's in the squad), but the timing of the sacking of Cook and the general lack of consistency. Apparently we've been planning for this tournament for years; we've played nothing but ODI cricket for about 6 months now, and yet come the first game of the WC they still haven't got the foggiest what their strongest team is or what the batting order should be. Complete shambles.

At the end of the tournament (which, even if we go out at the earliest opportunity, is not for another three sodding weeks) Morgan should be removed and they should go back to the drawing board. Identify the 20-25 players that will form the next World Cup squad (allowing for the fact that some may not make the grade) and start playing them. Then work out who your captain is (probably Joe Root). Doesn't matter if the conditions don't suit them, they need experience playing in all conditions.

edit to add: I was ambivalent about the appointment of Moores - he did a good job at Lancs and there was a chance that he'd come back a better coach. That's clearly not the case, and he should be given a very clear set of objectives for the next 12 months (even if they are embarrasingly low) and, if he doesn't meet them, sack him. Then replace him with a reformist - Gillespie would be great but I suspect wouldn't take the job. They could do worse than give it to one of the more vocal former players - I wouldn't mind someone like Paul Collingwood, although ideally someone with more coaching experience.

knocky1 · Feb 20, 2015

We are terrible, I admit. New Zealand, however, are third favourites. Looking forward to NZ v Australia. If they meet again in the semi finals the game is played At the home ground of the team that finished highest in the group. Auckland or Sydney, so the group game is very important.

England are 5th in the betting and a quarter final against India is possible. This shows what a waste of time this World Cup is with 4 qualifiers out of 7. Australia could have a 'bad' game against one of the minnows to stop a top 4 finish but we're more likely to do that ourselves against Bangladesh.

GT49er · Feb 20, 2015

Gregory2 said:
I lost my interest in Pyjama Cricket a long time ago,the equvilant of watching Rugby 7's for me

the Cricket World Cup needs serious overhauling,should be 2 innings matches to give it some credence

sure there is a place for ODI's running along side a test series,but it's just not cricket old boy!

Test cricket is the only one that really matters for me, too. The ODI and Twenty20 stuff is all good fun, pulls in the punters and that, but doesn't really matter.

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[Cricket] England Cricket RIP

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